Wind generator -- repair or cut off?

[George DuBose]

Buy cheap tools, you buy 'em twice. Buy a SuperWind 350.

...and what do boarding waves do with your solar panels?

[vpbarkley]

Cut it off with extreme prejudice! Throw it into a volcano!

My boat came with one. First improvement was to remove it.

[Joh.Ghurt]

Originally Posted by vpbarkley

Cut it off with extreme prejudice! Throw it into a volcano!

My boat came with one. First improvement was to remove it.

My first improvement on my boat was twice as good as yours: I removed and gave away 2 wind-generators.

[skipgundlach]

I hate my wind generator...

Sez nobody, ever, with full batteries and cold refrigerator overnight...

We have an early generation KISS, and added a KISS Accumulator control.

We wouldn't be without it...

[kryg]

I have had my D400 rebuild since 2004. I send it from Sydney, Australia to Eclectic to have it rebuild cost about half of buying a new one? Frankly, I find it difficult to understand how the tail on your D400 broke? It is a relatively heavy aluminium plate shaped in a lazy s for strength. Did the bolts come loose from the main D400 housing??

Relying on a wind generator solely for generating power to charge the battery is not the main point. I find where the D400 comes into its own mostly is as a top-up for your battery if you have solar panels. Since my d400 is always a charging night or day in windy conditions, with over cast rainy days. I find it keeps my battery healthy, giving them a longer life. In my case, when I sent my D400 for a rebuild, it took about 6 weeks. During this time, I noticed the lack of the added charging at night made a difference to the AGM battery banks, as they seemed to not quite reaching fully charged state. In my view, it is important to keep battery banks sensing an incoming charge for battery long life health. Keeping them topped up as much as possible. Every boat's setup and power needs are different - Here is my setup.

My system is 12 volts, powered by two solar panels 360 watts each for = 720 watts. They are mounted over the helm on a tagra. My Victron Smart Charger controller is a 150/70 manages the solar input to my house bank is 4 x 215 amp = 860 AGM battery bank. Plus starter battery. As Backup, I have a D 400 wind generator, which keeps the battery’s topped up at night and on very overcast days.
I'm surprised to have far more power than I require with this sent up. I run my 60 litre H water maker during the day for 3 hours, once every few weeks. Plus I have an ultrasonic aid to keep the hard hull growth at bay, it is running 24/7!

Since I live on the boat while cruising, I can’t get over how effective my system is. As I run my 2 fridges/freezer,(one is 45 litres, the other is 60 litres) computers. And everything normally to operate the boat. Depending on the solar and wind, by 10 to 11 am my batteries are fully charged. However, in Sydney this month, we experienced nearly 3 weeks of heavy rains. I found I need to run the engine's 120 amp alternator for 2 hours for 3 of the worst days when it was really pissing down hard night and day. Bottom line, I would rebuild the D400 again if I needed to.

Originally Posted by sailingharry

So, my boat came with a D400 wind generator. I have a dedicated Amp meter, and it performs pretty close to the factory specs. In other words, it's crap. It takes almost 20kts of wind to get 10A of power, it is rated at 2A in 10kts of wind, and with typical gusty/fluky/light winds in an anchorage, the output is well below 5A (it bounces between 0 and 3, typically). We did hit 35A in tropical storm Elise, but I don't recommend it. LOL. I've often said it doesn't make enough power to justify the shadow it makes on our solar. But we have it, it's thousands of dollars, it's installed, etc.


Until yesterday. Something happened (not sure what) in some stiff wind in our marina. One blade is broken, and the tail fin broke off. Like I said, weird. The remaining 4 blades are really old and weathered -- not sure I'd like to buy a single blade to mix in the set. So, 5 blades, a nose cone (broken too), and tail fin is around $400 direct from Eclectic. Another $200 for S&H. Even more if I buy it from the thief here in Annapolis.


Maybe it's time to put my money where my mouth is.


Anyone see why I shouldn't take it off and see what I can get on eBay? And if I take it off, any reason why I shouldn't take a cutoff wheel to the mast and cut it flush with the arch? What could I repurpose that mast for? Is the D400 worth the $600 to get it running again? Thoughts?


Harry
Circe -- '98 Saga 43 #19
Mill Creek, Annapolis

[j.g.evans]

Junk it. You don't want to anchor anywhere it is windy enough to give you decent charging of your batteries.

[MJH]

Originally Posted by sailingharry

So, my boat came with a D400 wind generator. I have a dedicated Amp meter, and it performs pretty close to the factory specs. In other words, it's crap. It takes almost 20kts of wind to get 10A of power, it is rated at 2A in 10kts of wind, and with typical gusty/fluky/light winds in an anchorage, the output is well below 5A (it bounces between 0 and 3, typically). We did hit 35A in tropical storm Elise, but I don't recommend it. LOL. I've often said it doesn't make enough power to justify the shadow it makes on our solar. But we have it, it's thousands of dollars, it's installed, etc.

Until yesterday. Something happened (not sure what) in some stiff wind in our marina. One blade is broken, and the tail fin broke off. Like I said, weird. The remaining 4 blades are really old and weathered -- not sure I'd like to buy a single blade to mix in the set. So, 5 blades, a nose cone (broken too), and tail fin is around $400 direct from Eclectic. Another $200 for S&H. Even more if I buy it from the thief here in Annapolis.

Maybe it's time to put my money where my mouth is.

Anyone see why I shouldn't take it off and see what I can get on eBay? And if I take it off, any reason why I shouldn't take a cutoff wheel to the mast and cut it flush with the arch? What could I repurpose that mast for? Is the D400 worth the $600 to get it running again? Thoughts?

Harry
Circe -- '98 Saga 43 #19
Mill Creek, Annapolis

Don't put any money into it. Sell it and invest in solar, as much as your boat will support. I have 4x140W solar panels, two above the dodger and two on an arch, and very happy with the setup. Good Luck.

~ ~ _/) ~ ~ MJH

[Redline452]

When I ordered our arch, I took the option for solar panel brackets plus a post for a future wind generator. After installing the solar (3 Kyocera 130s), I repurposed the post to support the AT140 HF tuner and the end of its longwire antenna, and a 15dB WiFi antenna. No regrets.

[Locquatious]

Keep it.

If your wind generator is 3-phase AC output, consider getting a Kiss Extractor™. It gets more energy out of a wind generator at low wind speeds, stops the wind generator when the battery is charged, and may stop the wind generator before it overheats. It was designed for the Kiss wind generator but should work with any 3-phase AC unit that puts out less than 45 amps.

We have two of them on our boat. They've been bullet-proof.

When we need to make water, we anchor or moor in a bay with good wind. We make water all through the night.

[MicHughV]

Some years back I had a Windbugger....remember those...it was quite big....very heavy...very noisy....only two blades....mine was the hoisting model. It would reside in the mizzen triangle when I used it at anchor. It didn't like wind direction changes very much, and would shudder and shake like a banshee when it had to re-adjust to a new wind angle.
There were times, when I hoisted it under sail....same location...which meant nobody could walk past the cockpit.
In time, some of the magnets came loose from the housing, at which point, I said some sweet words to it and gave it a burial.

Solar power for me, babeeeee.. !!!!

[sailingharry]

Originally Posted by George DuBose

Buy cheap tools, you buy 'em twice. Buy a SuperWind 350.



...and what do boarding waves do with your solar panels?

Not sure many would consider a D400 to be an inferior product.

And boarding waves that are enough to take out solar panels that are literally 2 feet over my head when standing at the helm.... Well, if it comes to that, my solar panels are the least of my concerns! And I'm not sure your SuperWind 350 is designed to handle direct impact of breaking waves -- even if it does, I doubt the support mast would survive.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by sailingharry

Not sure many would consider a D400 to be an inferior product.

No indeed. I've always thought of it as top of the class (or in the top five, for sure). And my impression was that it's a decent low-wind performer.

As I said, I have both and like both. My sense is that I get about 85% of my amp needs from my solar install, with the other 15% coming from my wind gen (Silentwind). But this only tells part of the tale.

Although the overall contribution is small, it's not insignificant. And often it is exactly during the times solar is lagging that the wind gen is shining (so to speak).

I always recommend people first maximize their solar, but after that a wind gen can be a great compliment to the charging system. But exactly how well it does really depends on location.

If my wind gen died I'd be hard pressed to justify getting another one. This is due to cost. If cost were not barrier, I'd replace it.

[sailingharry]

Originally Posted by seandepagnier

Your watt and sea generator. how much does it weigh? I built a hydro generator with total weight below 2lb. Yes it only produces a few amps, starting at 7knots, but I typically sail faster than this anyway. The drag is also minimal with a tiny 100mm diameter turbine.

The whole kit probably weighs 20 lbs. It's an almost set-and-forget -- or would be except for our dog. I have to unmount it to launch the dinghy. It takes about 1 minute in and out, and sits on our sugar scoop.


The prop we had last year was a 240mm, and it pretty much matched the factory output curve -- 12A at 6kt, 28A at 8kt, 45A at 10kt.


Since it broke, I've been in conversations with my dealer and the factory. I'm going to step up to the 280mm, which has a listed top speed of 9kts -- but the factory and my dealer says that short durations in the 10-12kt range aren't an issue. Since I rarely see 9, and we have a personal record of 12, the 280 will be nice. And if I think I'll be seeing double digit speeds, I'll lift it.



The 280mm has factory curve data of 18A at 6kt, and 25A at 8kt. Since the smaller prop performed as advertised, I suspect the large will as well.


A major negative point on the Watt&Sea. They are insanely expensive. The cheap plastic prop is around $300. The boat came with a broken one in addition to the good one -- and now I've broken one. They are consumable, at a non-consumable price. They are no fancier than a $30 electric trolling motor prop, and probably less durable. The factory stance is that they are sacrificial to protect the rest of the system -- so they should price them accordingly!

[nofacey]

Could never justify buying a new one, but was jealous of those that had them at night in tradewind areas…….any free amps at night are great ones.
Anywhere else, they were a pain.

[Rotten Ricky]

Too many people are making judgements based on THEIR particular circumstances. Only decide after carefully looking at YOURS!

If you realistically cannot see it getting much use, then remove it. But YOUR circumstances might suggest that having power generated on cloudy days and during nights might be invaluable. Even a small amount of generated power can make a big difference!

I would be very reluctant to remove it but I am a guy who lives in a cloudy area and is pretty versatile at making things work long past their retirement date. Some newer blade designs might even improve your power output. There are simple designs for blades made out of simple stuff like ABS plastic plumbing pipe - are you handy enough to make your own for next to nothing? You probably are. But you will need to cost it all out in terms of money and time.

Do you still have a post for it? With the gen removed maybe you could use it to install a secondary antenna or similar in case you primary one dies. Even a GPS antenna, or cell phone booster antenna or AM/FM radio.

Cheers,

RR.