Would You Buy a European 220V Boat for Use North America

[Scorpius]

Originally Posted by team karst

Depends on the boat. Mine was 220v and was mostly converted. The reefer was 12v, so no issue there. The oven/stove is propane. The power inlet was converted, so were the receptacles. The battery charger had a simple jumper change. The water heater element was apparently changed. However, the 2.5mm power inlet wires were missed and I changed them to awg10. I replaced some 220v labels with 120v in various places. The a/c units were added after the conversion.
Some work, but not a huge effort.

I'm not sure about boats but I know that European (220v) house wire is MUCH lighter than that for North American (120v) homes. If it is the same on boats (and I suspect it is) I would be VERY concerned about running heavy draw 120v loads (such as air conditioning) on that designed-for-220v wiring. It sounds like a recipe for a fire to me.

[redneckrob]

Originally Posted by Scorpius

I'm not sure about boats but I know that European (220v) house wire is MUCH lighter than that for North American (120v) homes. If it is the same on boats (and I suspect it is) I would be VERY concerned about running heavy draw 120v loads (such as air conditioning) on that designed-for-220v wiring. It sounds like a recipe for a fire to me.

Per Ohms law, V=IR, it needs to be exactly half the size because it's carrying half the amps for a same number of watts. But as several of us already pointed out on this thread, many newer boats from European manufacturers use the same wiring loom in all their boats so it's not an issue and you can always put in CBs at half the amps if you don't need the full wattage that was there before.

This is all fundamentally basic stuff for anyone with an electrical background. If it's not fundamentally basic, you should be hiring someone for whom it is, as I was pleased to see the OP say they were doing.

[Scorpius]

Originally Posted by redneckrob

Per Ohms law, V=IR, it needs to be exactly half the size because it's carrying half the amps for a same number of watts. But as several of us already pointed out on this thread, many newer boats from European manufacturers use the same wiring loom in all their boats so it's not an issue and you can always put in CBs at half the amps if you don't need the full wattage that was there before.

This is all fundamentally basic stuff for anyone with an electrical background. If it's not fundamentally basic, you should be hiring someone for whom it is, as I was pleased to see the OP say they were doing.

I know that. Actually I have an electrical engineering (not "official" boat wiring) background. I was just keeping it simple.

[team karst]

Originally Posted by Scorpius

I'm not sure about boats but I know that European (220v) house wire is MUCH lighter than that for North American (120v) homes. If it is the same on boats (and I suspect it is) I would be VERY concerned about running heavy draw 120v loads (such as air conditioning) on that designed-for-220v wiring. It sounds like a recipe for a fire to me.

All the euro 220V wiring was done with 2.5mm sq wiring, and set up for 16Amps max. Including the main. Only the main was the issue that was missed. That had to accomodate 30Amps, which drove the 10AWG to the inlet/ELCI.

btw, this entire 220, 230, 240V thing....

Continental euro was using 220 as the reference. UK was using 240V. Sometime ago, they agreed to split the diff, and call it 230V. The US has been gradually increasing line voltage over the years. Your dad called it 220, now, that's old school, and its called 240 by electricians.
And, dont get me started on the lunatics' wiring up marinas using 208 3 phase. Gives you 120V ok, but only 208 at the 50A pedestal when you really want 240/120, like your US home.

[Jenta]

Originally Posted by team karst

btw, this entire 220, 230, 240V thing....

220, 221 - whatever it takes.


A good point was made about the current carrying capability being adequate for the amperage load from 100-240 volts regardless. Our 2009 Lagoon 440 is wired for 230v, but the wire is quite adequate for 120v without replacement.
Of course your mileage may vary but it isn't a sure thing that it will need replacement if you were converting.

Don't get me started on the less than adequate 12v DC wiring in several places however.

[team karst]

Originally Posted by Jenta

220, 221 - whatever it takes.



Don't get me started on the less than adequate 12v DC wiring in several places however.

not to get you started...

My Lagoon had 12V individual wires of around awg16 maybe 14, ultimately fused by the 100A mains.... These were running to the panel to/fro, with the 12V mains fuses about 8 feet away, close to the house bank. Of course, being French, they also fused the NEG.

You did check your 120V line going from the shore inlet, correct? That was the one turning black and brittle on mine.

[jbrasseul]

Well, it's my case, I came to the US with my boat, European, Danish, with 220V, and stayed six years in America, I just had to change the invertor for a 110V one I bought in West Marine, and everything went fine in the US marinas. Now I'm back in Europe, had to change back to the old invertor in the Azores and it works fine since too.

[normanm]

My boat fits this category I used 50 amp shbore power and this powers the 220 and 110 v Stove is propane by the way.circuits.

[bclaude]

My wife and I own a 220V boat purchased in Europe and have sailed the US and Caribbean extensively without any issues.

At the risk of repeating what has already been said, you have two issues to consider: 1) Voltage and 2) Frequency.

Voltage is no big deal, most marinas in the US and Caribbean have outlets with a ground, a neutral and two 110V hot wires. If you wire your 220V boat between the two hot wires you will have 220V so this is an easy issue to address. All you need is a pigtail with a male yellow US plug on one end and a female EU plug on the other. When in the US you power your boat through the pigtail.

Frequency is slightly more difficult. To answer your question you need to run an inventory of what uses 220V on your boat and wether it is frequency sensitive. The most frequent devices using 220V are battery chargers, air conditioners, water makers, Microwave oven, hot water heater, washing machine and diving air compressors.

In general Microwaves and motorised appliances (washing Machines) do care about frequency and heating appliance can be equally well on both.

On my boat my battery chargers are 50/60Hz compatible and by definition so is my hot water heater. The air conditioner can be run on both 50 and 60Hz but slightly less efficiently on 50Hz. My Watermaker is 220V 50Hz and 24V but if I use it on 220V it would be off the generator anyway. I am left with the microwave, my washing machine and other minor appliances that I run of the inverter which is set to output 220V at 50Hz: When in a marina, my battery chargers convert 220V 60Hz into 24V DC and my inverter converts DC into 220V 50Hz. Problem solved as long as your battery charger and inverter can handle the load you place on them.

Of course, all the outlets on my boat are 220V and would be 60Hz in the US Caribbean unless I run them off the inverter. Items like phone chargers and computer chargers are designed to run on Bothe 50 and 60Hz anyways but do check on the label before you plug them in.

I am predominantly based in Europe and therefore most of my personal equipment is 220V so I like having a 220V boat. If I was US based I would install a few US 110V outlets off one of the two US hot wires and neutral to give me 110V. The good news is that by preserving EU and US outlets, you will never accidentally plug an appliance in the wrong outlet/voltage.

One word of caution, is to be very very careful about not mixing up neutral and hot wires if you run it off 220V in the US and Caribbean. If you are not certain what you are doing, ask someone to check your system for you. In my case I installed an isolation transformer to isolate my boat electrically from the shore power and prevent any issues. This is a safety concern, do not skip this step. In any event, an isolator as a good thing to have to prevent severe damage to your boat in a Marina occupied by loaves that have electrical defects. This is true anywhere around the world, I would have one installed even if I stayed in any given area as otherwise the safety of your boat depends not only on how it has been wired but also on how the boats on you are wired and that is always a question mark.

Hope this helps.

[RELENTLESS 1]

We had our boat built in France. We went with 220V because we had planned to sail the Med for a couple of seasons - nixxed by C19. The Builder is very weight conscious so we went along because 220 is significantly less weight than 120V and the plugs are nicer and safer...Now that we have had to ship the boat to the US - it still isn't the worst decision but it is an inconvenient one. We are installing a 110V Inverter and adding a couple of 110V outlets and we went with all induction - zero propane and it works fine w/the Solar we have and will work better when the Integrel is installed - though at this moment they can't seem to deliver any of the needed parts to install it even though I ordered it nearly 2 years ago. If I was only in the US - I would do the 120V and not deal with the hassle.

[jalmberg]

We bought a European boat and have been living aboard 4 years. Never plugged in, obviously. We depend on solar and wind (and occasionally engine) for power. No problem so far. You can replace the charging system, but we haven’t felt the need.

[Sailinglabs]

I think the answer depends on the entirety of your electrical system and your plans. I built my boat to be able to plug in anywhere and chose European 230v A/C. More places I’m likely to visit are on this standard but in 110/120 v countries, the isolation transformer can step up (albeit at the wrong frequency). My mains charger accepts any input and I have an inverter that can supply all the A/C I need at the right frequency. Better yet, almost 1200 watts of solar and 1,000 ah of AGMs means that I don’t need to plug in to shore power unless too far North in the winter.

[betwys1]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Brill , a person that has done the conversion is about to tell us all. !!

Huh , I see it’s simple to convert by not actually converting anything , ok......

I’ve not been in a boat recently where the MCBs are double pole , the main RCBO is double pole of course

Without all breakers being double pole you essentially have a very dangerous situation with split phase

I presume your insurance company is fully appraised , of course it is , as you say , you clearly know it’s all so simple

Everything works fine except some things don’t work fine. ... I see

To summarise

It’s all simple , don’t actually convert anything , then engage in a very dodgy practice of running split phase into a system designed for single phase. A random list of equipment may or may not work.


Let’s hope someone following your concept doesn’t have protective earth ever connected to neutral !!


That’s alright then so.

NOT neutral to protective ground? Oh no! That's like every home in the us that wires the washer and drier on split-phase AND ties ground to neutral. Hope their insurance company knows.
NEXT you'll be wiring your high-current connections by twisting them together with a million wire nuts.

Oh look! I can write snippy responses too!

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by betwys1

NOT neutral to protective ground? Oh no! That's like every home in the us that wires the washer and drier on split-phase AND ties ground to neutral. Hope their insurance company knows.

NEXT you'll be wiring your high-current connections by twisting them together with a million wire nuts.



Oh look! I can write snippy responses too!

You clearly understand the issues !!

where a split phase with two, out of phase, live wires is fed into a system designed a single live and neutral wire and where the possibly that a connector could exist between such neutral and and protective earth. A neutral and it’s earth connection that has now been connected to a live phase !!! Such a phase that will not be protected by a single pole mcb.

That’s ok then.

Oh and wire nuts are only allowed to rig up such systems but not used as connectors !!!!

[jimellifritt]

Yes I did this. It is a 52 foot Mandarin by Seahorse. We have had for 5 years. The first 2 years was upgrading all wiring to the 110 60 hertz 12 2 and 10 2 depending on circuit. I also put in new Northern lights generator. We have around 29k in just this process. It also include new breakers and reorganizing panels. This is a very big job! We did this while living aboard. so it can. e done. The boat was what we wanted. It was worth the investment for us. Our sister ship purchase 3 years later just runs his on 220 50 hz and buys appliances on Amazon. It really depends on is this the only boat for you.