1:1 vs 2:1 halyard for Code Zero

[SVSweetestThing]

Hi All,
I'm going to ask a question and try not to sound stupid. I have been sailing a while but I never did understand (or ask) what a 2:1 halyard was when rigging my code 0. I have had people say you should have it 2:1 so that it whares the tension but I'm not sure if mine is or is not.

I have a line from the cabin that goes to a pully at the base of the mast, hits a block, and travels up the mast (inside) it then goes around another. pully at the tip and at an angle down to my bowsprit. I have assumed that this is a 2:1 but was never sure... I always thought 2 pullies meant 2:1. but really one is directing the turn up the mast and I have a triangle at the sail (one up and one to the top of a sail. If I don't have it rigged 2:1 how do I?

Thanks

[Adelie]

Line goes up the mast across a pulley and down the the sail, that’s 1:1.

Line goes up the mast, across a pulley, down to the sail, around another pulley then back up to the top of the mast; that’s 2:1.

The load is the pull of the sail.

With 1:1 the load from the sail is the same as the load in the line.

With 2:1 the load in the line is half that coming from the sail. The mast experiences about the same load but you experience half the load when pulling the sail up. You also have to pull the rope twice as far.

[SVSweetestThing]

Then for a code O is it best to re-rig it to a 2:1 or can it work fine with a 1:1? or stay with the 1:1 and just grind it tight? Right now it's rigged as a 1:1

[Adelie]

Your boat is bigger than I usually sail. 2:1 is something you would use if the halyard loads were rather high. I have no opinion as to whether you would benefit.
Have you had trouble hoisting the CZ or having the clear or clutch it is secured to slip?

[Adelie]

I have heard of 2:1 for a main halyard. It seems reasonably you might use one for a job halyard rather than installing a downhaul for the jib.

Unless the sail area is really huge and it’s difficult to get up I don’t see a reason. For the job and main the halyard can be used to fine tune the tension in the luff. With a spinnaker or similar such as a CZ getting luff tension exactly right isn’t very important.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by SVSweetestThing

Then for a code O is it best to re-rig it to a 2:1 or can it work fine with a 1:1? or stay with the 1:1 and just grind it tight? Right now it's rigged as a 1:1

Ask a sail maker and/or rigger whether (1) you can apply enough luff tension to the Code 0 with the current 1:1 halyard (probably yes) and (2) that the halyard clutch is strong enough to hold the 1:1 tension when sailing (if existing sail and setup then probably yes, but if new by you then have it checked). Note that in gusts and/or waves the tension in the halyard can double the static tension; that is usually why larger boats use 2:1 for Code 0 halyards.

Bottom line, if this sail and halyard came with your boat then probably OK, but if it’s a recent addition by previous owner or by you then definitely have a professional check it out.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by SVSweetestThing

Then for a code O is it best to re-rig it to a 2:1 or can it work fine with a 1:1? or stay with the 1:1 and just grind it tight? Right now it's rigged as a 1:1

As to rigging it 2:1, you’ll need a longer halyard (by the length of the distance from the upper mast pulley to the bowsprit). You can save money by splicing a lighter line to the cockpit end of the existing halyard to make up the extra length, as that end will never see sailing loads.[LIST][*]The halyard will be secured at the top pulley. An eye splice is best, but a halyard knot is OK. It will be spliced/knotted to a shackle that can be attached to the same place as the upper mast pulley.[*]You will need a block with a snap or halyard or soft shackle that will create the lower end of the 2:1. The pulley will sit on a bight of the halyard and the snap/halyard/soft shackle will attach to the upper swivel of the Code 0. Something like this http://www.antal.it/eng/LS046_en (not sure what strength you would need).

[Tin Tin]

The 2:1 will be easier to haul, but twice as much line. On a 2:1 the load on the halyard is shared between the sheave and the attachment point near the sheave, so the sheave pulley and spindle have less load on them than a 1:1. There is also less vertical compression load on the mast with a 2:1.


Long discussion here on it:
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...-191698-2.html

[sowwaninii]

My code 0 is rigged with a 1:1 halyard, but my tack line goes through a block so I can adjust the tension on the luff depending on point of sail and wind velocity.

[jannw]

It's basically a spinnaker halyard - on a 41 footer you don't need a 2to1 (and, in fact, the huge coil of rope will get in the way on your mast or in your cockpit)

Speaking hypothetically you'd probably get more value from a 2to1 on your main halyard when you are putting in and shaking out reefs ... but still not really worth it for your size of yacht.

[roverhi]

Originally Posted by Tin Tin

There is also less vertical compression load on the mast with a 2:1.]

The compression load on the mast will be the same with 1-1, 2-1 or any other combination. The down force will be split between the block and anchor point on on the mast but compression will be the two loads added together. In fact down force could be greater if you are using the force multiplier of the multi part setup to get more tension on the sail luff.

Crewed on a trimaran with 2-1 halyards which were a pain to hoist sails because of the doubled length of the halyard. Unfortunately it was necessary as the load on the halyard was so great the clutches would barely hold the line at full tensioned hoist.

[zstine]

OK, I'm seeing the opposite statement of my experiences. Spinnakers/Code zero's are light sails easy to hoist (assuming they are furled or in a snuffer when they go up). We had a 2:1 on our spinnaker in a 22ft race boat. The 2:1 was rigged opposite what everybody is saying. You pull 1 foot, the sail goes up 2ft. The sail weight is 15lbs... It takes 30lbs (plus a little friction) to hoist. We did this to allow for very quick hoisting when racing. I now sail a 41ft boat with a big spinnaker. We have a 1:1 on it. I don't see the need for a 2:1 making the forces lower to hoist unless you have a very heavy code 0. Can you hoist it physically without it catching wind? if yes, then no need to make changes... you should Not be hoisting it full of wind.



The OP doesn't know if he has a 2:1. Easy to check. Pull a measured distance on one end and see if the other end move the same distance. If yes, 1:1. if the distance is different, the ratio of distances moved gives you the 'purchase" ratio on the line.

[SVSweetestThing]

I know the rigging just was not sure if it was "called" 1:1 or 2:1 as the way I have it rigged. I was under the opinion that it created less load doing it this way. If there are no hoist issues it sounds like having a 1:1 vs a 2:1 is really not much of an issue with a lite sail.

[SaltyMetals]

I am not quite sure what you mean by a Code Zero. If it is a gennaker on a top-down furler then you will need a lot of tension on the torsion rope. I hv a 43 ft Jeanneau 43ds with a 1100 sq ft gennaker. Hauling the furled sail up to the top of the mast is the easy bit. The challenge comes when you need a v high tension for unfurling or furling. I found this v difficult with a manual winch but it is easy if i pass the halyard across to my electric winch on port. This means i am fine with my 1:1 and avoid all the extra "spaghetti" in the cockpit which would result from a 2:1.

If you are talking about a conventional sail rather than a downwind gennaker/assymetric then you should find a 1:1 perfectly adequate on your boat. If the Spinlocks are not holding yr halyard at yr chosen tension then there is a kit that Spinlock supplies to replace the inner bits that grab the line but try flushing the Spinlock out with fresh water first to see if that fixes it. Otherwise the inner bits of the Spinlock is an easy DIY replacement. This solution is probably cheaper than changing yr halyard to a larger diam.

Andrew

[Tin Tin]

Originally Posted by roverhi

The compression load on the mast will be the same with 1-1, 2-1 or any other combination. The down force will be split between the block and anchor point on on the mast but compression will be the two loads added together. In fact down force could be greater if you are using the force multiplier of the multi part setup to get more tension on the sail luff.

Crewed on a trimaran with 2-1 halyards which were a pain to hoist sails because of the doubled length of the halyard. Unfortunately it was necessary as the load on the halyard was so great the clutches would barely hold the line at full tensioned hoist.

I don't think this is correct, I understand the compressive load is reduced by 25% over a 1:1 system, but a more qualified physicist can explain why I am sure. See post 18 of the attached http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/ind...d-on-the-mast/