Ocean Concerns

[SV THIRD DAY]

Notice no one wants to talk about just how wrong the Population Bomb scientist was...its like the want to ignore the failings of the doom n gloom crowd and tell us it is different this time. But it's not, it's never different. Those predicting Doom and Gloom are always wrong. Which is fine they have the freedom to be wrong but you notice how they want to drag everyone else into their religion.

If the followers of man-made global warming actually believed what they were espousing, they would all be living off the grid, they would be vegetarians, and none of them would run their air conditioning to do their part to save mother Gia. But you know that they know it's a scam, so they don't want to sacrifice they just want to tell us to sacrifice. See they want to Value signal and show everyone that there are better more enlightened more moral person than the rest of us heathens.

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

Notice no one wants to talk about just how wrong the Population Bomb scientist was

Again, they weren't wrong.

You're just focused on a very narrow window of humanity.

Widen the timescale to thousands of years, try living in not-yet developed communities around the world.

Access to just this one very basic set of needs: clean drinking water, healthy air to breathe, plenty of food

is even now unavailable (at the same time) to all but a very small, very privileged fraction of the worlds population.

And even in the most economucally developed country, not guaranteed to all.
"Freedom" has many flavours, and the one that guarantees maximum increased wealth to those that already have most of it

is not IMO a higher priority than the other above freedoms.

[SV THIRD DAY]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Access to just this one very basic set of needs: clean drinking water, healthy air to breathe, plenty of food

is even now unavailable (at the same time) to a very small, very privileged fraction of the worlds population.

Of course they were wrong....but to admit hit, calls into questions your world view, so you ignore it....More myths believed as fact....but that's the value of these CF Threads. They challenge people's religious dogma.

Why would some Citizens of the World be lacking of some of the basic needs?
Why did the people of Venezuela go from being among the richest if Latin America to now eating their Dogs and Cats to survive?

The answer is obvious, but see the LEFT Loved Hugo Chavez...they Love Socialism, so they are incapable of accepting the Answer.

The world doesn't have too large a population, the world needs more freedom and Capitalism, the only proven long term solution to Poverty.

[geoleo]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

Thanks Matt, but you show you hand in falsely assuming there is some Big Oil and Fossle Fuel Conspiracy of Big Money holding down the little guy from buying more green and Environmentally friendly sources of power and anything else. That's my point exactly and where the MMGWC gets it wrong. The burning of carbon based fossil fuels has raised more people out of poverty than any social program in the history of the world! That wasn't done by the hand of Government steering people away from Oxen or the Horse and Buddy. That was done because the Poor, Middle Class AND Wealthy all benefitted from the technology. But what we have now...in this fake MMGW Scam is the educated elite trying to dictate what consumers can and want to buy...simply put....it doesn't work. When Solar panels on a house makes financial sense...then people will buy them, but until then it is folly to push them and raise the costs on the poor. For example, California has some of the highest costs of electricity in the Country...why...because the feel good MMGWC-ists have mandated that 1/3 and soon 1/2 of California's electricity must come from "renewables other than Nuke". So who pays...the poor and middle class while the leftist gets his feel good, I'm a better person program, the Company in favor gets a slush fund kick-back and the American Consumer gets screwed. Why is a poor guy subsidizing $7500 for every Tesla on the Road? Why is a poor guy forced to pay more for his power because some rich guy in power things he should?

When you distort the Free Market you no longer have Freedom, but crony Crapitalism which is what we have today and why people are figuring out both Political Parties are screwing them.

Now as to the science....
When the models used to tell us CO2 is destroying the planet can be proven to work (IE make accurate predictions of the present or past) then we can start to believe them. That, if you follow the science and not hype, has not happened yet. Why...because it's FAKE...a Fraud...a Scam all about power and control of Trillions of dollars. The Paris Climate Accord that we wisely pulled out of...lets say we stayed in and the world followed it to the T...you know what would happen? Nothing...it wouldn't make a difference EXCEPT to move Trillions of dollars around...again...BINGO. It's not about Climate Science, it's about income distribution and punishing the evil rich countries by making them pay reparations to the poor countries.

Remember....what I did for a living...testing power plants, emission control, presenting air emission papers and control technology at the same conferences you guys look to as Gods! So as the only one in this discussion that was once on the Inside of the Scam but got out when I saw it...I have a little more credibility on the subject than the average Bozo. Ask the questions...why is the data being "adjusted" to make it fit the models? Ask the Question, why can't the models that are predicting our CO2 doom accurately predict the future or past? Because they are Bogus and driven by the quest for control. The same Population Bomb Scam folks mixed forces with the discredited Commies and formed the Green Movement...folks you may not want to hear it, but why are all the Leftists around the world also Greens? Because they are one in the same. Hate me for saying it...but I've seen under the curtain and it ain't what you think.

Good summary Mr Rich!

[rgleason]

Geoleo, was this a cross thread post?
Please give us a link, since you quote.

Thank you.

[senormechanico]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

If the followers of man-made global warming actually believed what they were espousing, they would all be living off the grid, they would be vegetarians, and none of them would run their air conditioning to do their part to save mother Gia. But you know that they know it's a scam, so they don't want to sacrifice they just want to tell us to sacrifice. See they want to Value signal and show everyone that there are better more enlightened more moral person than the rest of us heathens.

A perfect example is their "religious" leader, Algore.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Again, they weren't wrong.

You're just focused on a very narrow window of humanity.

Widen the timescale to thousands of years, try living in not-yet developed communities around the world.

Access to just this one very basic set of needs: clean drinking water, healthy air to breathe, plenty of food

is even now unavailable (at the same time) to all but a very small, very privileged fraction of the worlds population.

And even in the most economucally developed country, not guaranteed to all.
"Freedom" has many flavours, and the one that guarantees maximum increased wealth to those that already have most of it

is not IMO a higher priority than the other above freedoms.

"IMO" is often the problem. People want to impose their opinions on the rest of humanity, often (but not always) supported by good intentions and a means justifying the ends rationale. But with no consideration or perhaps even awareness of the social, political & economic costs. That's why it so often & ironically becomes a selfish, self-centered & seductive doctrine. I've "done my part" by speaking out but not actually doing anything. And I've enjoyed all the comforts, benefits & security of modern 1st-world life so now I have a "moral obligation" to dissuade others of its pitfalls -- for their own good & the good of the planet, of course. At its core it is high-minded, elitist, and generally ignorant of how most of humanity operates.

Btw, did you forget the dramatic decrease in worldwide poverty rates? And why would you assume that increased wealth for the wealthy comes at the expense of others? The increased standards of living worldwide strongly suggest otherwise. Economics is not a zero-sum game -- what do you think all these wealthy people you so deride do with their "excess" wealth? And why do you simplistically assume that denying them that wealth would necessarily benefit those in need?? All the evidence over the past 100 years proves otherwise. Socialism & communism haven't worked because they are fundamentally inconsistent with the nature of man, whether well-intended or not.

[SailOar]

Short Answers to Hard Questions About Climate Change | New York Times

[I am including the one-sentence summary answer for each question, but the linked webpage has a few-paragraph answer for each question.]

1. How much is the planet warming up?
2 degrees is actually a significant amount.

2. How much trouble are we in?
For future generations, big trouble.

3. Is there anything I can do about climate change?
Fly less, drive less, waste less.

4. What’s the optimistic case?
Several things have to break our way.

5. Will reducing meat in my diet really help the climate?
Yes, beef especially.

6. What’s the worst case?
There are many.

7. Will a technology breakthrough help us?
Even Bill Gates says don’t count on it, unless we commit the cash.

8. How much will the seas rise?
The real question is not how high, but how fast.

9. Are the predictions reliable?
They’re not perfect, but they’re grounded in solid science.

10. Why do people question the science of climate change?
Hint: ideology.

11. Is crazy weather tied to climate change?
In some cases, yes.

12. Will anyone benefit from global warming?
In certain ways, yes.

13. Is there any reason for hope?
If you share this with 50 friends, maybe.

14. How does agriculture affect climate change?
It’s a big contributor, but there are signs of progress.

15. Will the seas rise evenly across the planet?
Think lumpy.

16. What are ‘carbon emissions?’
Here’s a quick explainer.

[CatNewBee]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Again, they weren't wrong.

You're just focused on a very narrow window of humanity.

Widen the timescale to thousands of years, try living in not-yet developed communities around the world.

Access to just this one very basic set of needs: clean drinking water, healthy air to breathe, plenty of food

is even now unavailable (at the same time) to all but a very small, very privileged fraction of the worlds population.
....

A very old concept indeed. You can read it in the Holy Bible - the story of Adam and Eve...

This was the paradise, plenty of food, clean water and air and calm temperatures.

But then Eve stepped in and grab the "fruit of knowledge" and the trouble begun. So stop science - and enjoy life in paradise.

The real question is: is the human population ready to drop curiosity and science for a simple dumb life in paradise? I doubt it. We build our hell ourselves and invent ways to survive it.

Want to save the planet? Dump the climate scientist.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by SailOar

Short Answers to Hard Questions About Climate Change | New York Times

* * *

Good to see that some have retreated back to their safe spaces by cutting & pasting out of the Wash. Post and now the NYT. I'm sure this will be a relief to many, but unfortunately nobody who some apparently believe require more convincing of the "undisputed truth."

Fly less, drive less, eat less beef, and only read/discuss sources of information that validate your own world view. Feel virtuous and always signal your virtue to others. Words to live by.

[CatNewBee]

1. How much is the planet warming up?
nothing you should be afraid off, it was warmer in former times.

2. How much trouble are we in?
Beside the politicians, that are keen to rise more taxes - none.

3. Is there anything I can do about climate change?
yes, oppose those sects. do not contribute to this mayhem.

4. What’s the optimistic case?
One day people will realize the scam and client changer will run out of money.
The pessimistic case - if there is no warming - they will claim a global cooling and the next human induced ice age...

5. Will reducing meat in my diet really help the climate?
Nope, but reducing beans and onions can improve the micro climate around you.

6. What’s the worst case?
Those climate change preacher get heard and government impose more regulations.

7. Will a technology breakthrough help us?
No, climate change is claimed to be caused by technology - it will get worse with new breakthroughs.

8. How much will the seas rise?
Nothing you would notice, it takes decades and there is no proof that all the water will stay in the ocean. More likely it will rain in the deserts and fertilize the soil there.

9. Are the predictions reliable?
As reliable as any fatalistic predictions of the world extinction. Hey, we survived the Year 2000 and the Maya calendar!

10. Why do people question the science of climate change?
because it is ideology and not science.

11. Is crazy weather tied to climate change?
Crazy weather is WEATHER, not climate. Is a crazy cow tied to polar bears?

12. Will anyone benefit from global warming?
Yes, most of humans in underdeveloped countries - especially in Africa and in desert regions.

13. Is there any reason for hope?
Definitely! I hope the climate changes! But I doubt I will live long enough to experience it.

14. How does agriculture affect climate change?
More then CO2. Mono-cultures destroy more Eco-systems than CO2

15. Will the seas rise evenly across the planet?
No, they will rise on one spot only, as water always does...

16. What are ‘carbon emissions?’
Nobody knows this. I have never seen emissions of pure carbon - besides of diamonds and graphite.

[Kristoff21]

The problem with Fly Less, Drive Less, Eat meat less, equals 'live less'. Not in time, but in quality of life.

We are here for a fleeting moment (compared to geological time) so who is really going to do any of those things when those in power have no inclination to do so themselves.

[SV THIRD DAY]

Originally Posted by Exile

"IMO" is often the problem. People want to impose their opinions on the rest of humanity, often (but not always) supported by good intentions and a means justifying the ends rationale. But with no consideration or perhaps even awareness of the social, political & economic costs. That's why it so often & ironically becomes a selfish, self-centered & seductive doctrine. I've "done my part" by speaking out but not actually doing anything. And I've enjoyed all the comforts, benefits & security of modern 1st-world life so now I have a "moral obligation" to dissuade others of its pitfalls -- for their own good & the good of the planet, of course. At its core it is high-minded, elitist, and generally ignorant of how most of humanity operates.

Btw, did you forget the dramatic decrease in worldwide poverty rates? And why would you assume that increased wealth for the wealthy comes at the expense of others? The increased standards of living worldwide strongly suggest otherwise. Economics is not a zero-sum game -- what do you think all these wealthy people you so deride do with their "excess" wealth? And why do you simplistically assume that denying them that wealth would necessarily benefit those in need?? All the evidence over the past 100 years proves otherwise. Socialism & communism haven't worked because they are fundamentally inconsistent with the nature of man, whether well-intended or not.

Isn't it interesting that the MMGWC's solution is to prevent the 3rd world and second world Countries from improving themselves...that my friends is clearly Racist and it's about time someone had the intestinal fortitude to call them out on it...because other are too afraid....I will!

[CatNewBee]

Originally Posted by Kristoff21

The problem with Fly Less, Drive Less, Eat meat less, equals 'live less'. Not in time, but in quality of life.

We are here for a fleeting moment (compared to geological time) so who is really going to do any of those things when those in power have no inclination to do so themselves.

Well, one thing only would help.

You can Fly, Drive, Eat as much as you like - as long as you have no sex and do not reproduce.

Problem solved within 50 years.

[SV THIRD DAY]

Originally Posted by Kristoff21

The problem with Fly Less, Drive Less, Eat meat less, equals 'live less'. Not in time, but in quality of life.

We are here for a fleeting moment (compared to geological time) so who is really going to do any of those things when those in power have no inclination to do so themselves.

Ah but since those in power gain their power by doing what the people that vote for them want, you don't get leadership out of the elected...it's the people who lead. So based on the sales of SUVs and Steaks....it looks like most have sniffed out the MMGW Hoax.

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

Well, one thing only would help.

You can Fly, Drive, Eat as much as you like - as long as you have no sex and do not reproduce.

Problem solved within 50 years.

Ok, I'll go there.

This is why the Left supports Planned Parenthood/abortion.
Because as it's founder (Margaret Sanger) wanted, to weed out the minorities and "lessers" among us. That just what she said...don't be mad at me for telling you what you try to forget and ignore.