Storm Anchor

[JebLostInSpace]

So I'm working on potential hurricane plans in Charleston, SC. Some of you may have read about that already in this thread:
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...on-251302.html

It looks like plans A through D are going to involve anchoring the boat up one of the rivers here, and leaving for a few nights while the storm goes through. I got lots of good advice on that previous thread, and I think this is going to be the smart move for my situation. To that end, I've decided to get a more serious storm anchor ordered, in the hopes of worrying a little less when/if the time comes to leave the boat for a big storm.

I'm pretty sure that I want to get a Spade Anchor. I follow S/V Panope's testing videos, and the Spades performed really well in his usual tests, as well as his veer tests where he backs down hard while slowly rotating the direction of pull by 180 deg. That seems like an important situation for hurricane anchoring...

I'm open to other opinions if people think a different manufacturer of anchor would be better.

I'm also looking for advice on which size to get in the Spade. Spade's sizing recommendation chart is shown below. My Hunter 410 is 41 feet and displaces 20,000 lbs. That would put me in the 33 lb on length, or the 44 lb for weight as their recommended anchor. Since it's meant to be a storm anchor, I figure that means I should look at the 55 lb or 66 lb versions. It's almost a $300 price difference, which will sting but in the realm of preventing hurricane damage I'll gladly take the hit if the 66 lb is the right choice. But I'm interested to hear if people think it is worth it, as I do see several potential downsides to the big boy:

1. Will I have a lot of difficulty deploying/recovering an anchor that big? I have an electric windlass that I believe will handle the weight. But the anchor will be too big for my bow roller, so I'll have to heave it inboard from the roller by hand when recovering.

2. I wonder if I'll have problems setting it? Does a bigger, heavier anchor take more force to set properly? Will my boat have enough weight to get it to dig in?

3. It will be a huge PITA to store. It's heavy, so I'd want to find somewhere low and central to stow it when cruising, but I don't have many good options for something that big and awkwardly shaped. The easiest spot would be in the lazarette right aft. Is it worth worrying about 65 lbs back there?

As always, thanks to everyone for sharing your expertise and experiences!

[CruiseN]

I haven't much of a clue regarding anchor type nor weight for your vessel.

Just a picture of an anchor and what we do to retrieve a much larger anchor per the bouyansy fore and your winchs demands.
Hopefully someone other can take lead and guide better, I'm merely a topic such as a halyard.

We would shackle what I believe is known as the crown (red circle), and from there we would use heavy chain linking along the shank to suit length such that a breaker cord of suitable strength could be attached to the link that lays aligned with the shank eye.
To set the pick, we'd throw the vessel into full reverse and bury her properly. The heavy chain will keep the rode low and prevent lifting of chain. The chain actually does most of the work and the anchor just anchors such. As long a rode as practical to prevent lift makes the chain do the work rather than the anchor. At vessel end of rode we use line because line will stretch and is resistant to snap from the motion of waves.

To retrieve , we keep pulling it up, once vertical, the chain has no lay, thus instead of pulling along the shank the vessel is now pulling perpendicular to shank , hence if force is to strong, breaker will break and pull crown out backwards.
You need to understand your strengths though because during wind shift you might be pulling the anchor around. Last thing you want is a weak breaker disabling a really good system. Yet breaker can't be strength beyond your bouyansy neither.
That's what we do.
It's perfect in my eyes.
Our vessel has a flat rocker of towards aft fulcrum, he's a fast boat.
Breaker is strong, ours has never broken , yet none the less if anchor did bite a rock or something then anchor will pull out backwards.

I believe my old commercial fishing man skipper used heavy chain to keep anchor down. Overweight chain at shank and lay and does the same job. Fishing skiffs have rocker fulcrums further aft, even worse as a rocking horse wanting to break free.

Edit: I wouldn't bother using a breaker.. stuff that. An anchor and chain worth?
Vessel worth??
Could always go overboard later if stuck.???

[Pauls]

How wide is this river? If the river width does not significantly exceed 2X your scope (and you are going to want a lot of scope under hurricane conditions) then an anchor is going to be of little value during a hurricane, with who knows what wind directions.

On narrower rivers using multiple shore lines to stout trees is common practice.

[rslifkin]

Out of the new gen anchors, any of the ones that do well in the SV Panope tests is a good choice. Spade, Vulcan, Mantus M1, Excel, etc. Look at the measurements, cardboard templates, etc. and see what will fit on your bow the best. You might be surprised how big some designs will fit with little to know roller modification. And on your size boat, 50 - 60 lbs of anchor on the bow isn't unreasonable.

I ended up with a Vulcan as it fit best out of any of the choices and also allowed me to fit a larger anchor than the other options would. On my 38 foot, 26k lb powerboat (moderately high windage) I went with the 33kg / 73 lb Vulcan (1 size up from recommended). I'd go for at least a 25kg / 55lb anchor in whatever you choose, and if another size up fits well, go for it. If I were planning for a hurricane, I'd want at least 1 size bigger than what I've got.

In theory, it's possible to have an anchor so big that you can't set it well. In practice, an anchor that big is unlikely to fit on the bow, at least not without significant modification to the roller assembly. And it would be more than a couple of sizes up from recommended. So I wouldn't worry about it.

[CruiseN]

Any pictures of out of water hull please?

10 tonne ain't alot of weight for your length and beam. Reads as low volume and fast.
Problems with anchoring.. does boat dance on an anchor? Although light weight I tend to believe with higher impact strains on equipment because of dancing picks.

I tend to believe that your type of vessel tends to suffer more when holding a pick because she doesn't wedge a lot of volume to her size into the water thus her primary wind and wave break is on the low side of a ratio preferred high.. we grew up understanding that anchors are heavy but if you can fit it, use it. Reading that your winch will lift such is a big bonus..

You might want to stow heavy forward too to reduce your boats want to break free by bow down to heavy weather. It will reduce your anchor system load significantly and improve survival chance.

[CruiseN]

Another thought. Slow down.
Eg increase vessel weight as best you can so that she'd be a slow ride if underway. Such as fill tanks.
This will increase the load on anchor system if current is up but more importantly will reduce the spike load on anchor system and the spike load from wind and wave is far greater than a continuous pull of tide.
Bow down if swinging but if decision to tie up in unknown wind directions, you don't want aft in air if true behind.

Do you have bulk heads and sealable compartments capable of partial flooding until post storm? An option for some neighbours reading perhaps? Get under the weather and mop up a clean mess later.
I did notice some vessels have a head and a stow cabin between v cabin and main cabin. They look useful in times like this at your place. To encourage fulcrum forward to reduce rode acceleration.
Your anchor well? Can you plug that and fill with water until post storm? Your cockpit storage compartments in seat? They'll all help lower your windage and improve your traction to hold under a storm.
You know your vessel, I don't. Might be to high.

Can you set your auto bilge pump floats to allow a couple of feet below. That'd be a better traction.

We've been backwards too for many cold hours.

[Manateeman]

Find one or two huge Fortress anchors like the FX 55 .which have tremendous holding power. You can find them used from commercial work. Try the oil field or south Florida. They come apart and don’t weigh a lot.
Two set 180 degrees apart on chain and picked up in the middle and you have a hurricane mooring you can take with you. All the other details are on line like chafe, snubbers etc.
Look on the bow of a USCG cutter and it’s a big Fortress.
We carry a FX 120 below A FX 85 under the Trinka on deck and a FX 55 on an aft rail. We have a FX 37 to lend out or a quick set from the dinghy. Plus our regular two 120 pound stainless on all chain on the bow.
I’ve had to shovel out a Fortress on scuba it set so hard in sand.
We don’t like to be near docks, or boats in a big storm.
Happy trails to you.
The manatee crew

[CruiseN]

Weight until the storm has past over to remove her dance and let her rest..
Can you throw in the cabin some liquid drums? Lash them down low and fill with water? Lightweight until filled.
Then waving at wind age whilst tied with tide.
Just stabile eyes vessel.

Thanks for anchor information above. Recorded for my future usage.

[CruiseN]

Originally Posted by Manateeman

Find one or two huge Fortress anchors like the FX 55 .which have tremendous holding power. You can find them used from commercial work. Try the oil field or south Florida. They come apart and don’t weigh a lot.
Two set 180 degrees apart on chain and picked up in the middle and you have a hurricane mooring you can take with you. All the other details are on line like chafe, snubbers etc.
Look on the bow of a USCG cutter and it’s a big Fortress.
We carry a FX 120 below A FX 85 under the Trinka on deck and a FX 55 on an aft rail. We have a FX 37 to lend out or a quick set from the dinghy. Plus our regular two 120 pound stainless on all chain on the bow.
I’ve had to shovel out a Fortress on scuba it set so hard in sand.
We don’t like to be near docks, or boats in a big storm.
Happy trails to you.
The manatee crew

They really nice anchors. I just looked. That's what we use. Suits sand, mud.
I was never a fan of a plough because they can chance an awkward drop and not catch.

Popeye anchor (I don't know name of) we also use. Unlike picture, shank arms are perpendicular to crowns ploughing arms and like the fortress , it means the plough is going to align with the seabed and dig in.

There is no law that states you can not combination an anchor set. Eg eye the shank then eye the crown of Popeye followed by a swivel and a feets of link that eye a Fortress.
If Popeye drags, he has to drag a Fortress.

Just throwing you options of your choices sir.

[C420sailor]

CHAFE GEAR

Absolutely huge and often forgotten about. It almost bit me last year.

B361 on a 400lb mushroom in 20’ of water. Mud bottom. Fairly protected. Strong tropical storm rolled through. Mooring usually holds like hell in that mud, but just about every boat in the field dragged some. Lots of wind for our latitude.

We normally use the clear plastic tubing over the three strand for chafe. Works great 99% of the time. During the storm, the heavy pitching made it slide down through the bow chock on one side, and in those few hours the heavy three strand damn near chafed through. It was new rope that season, too.

You can have the best anchor in the world, but if your line or chafe gear sucks, it’s useless.

[CruiseN]

Do your hurricanes bring electricity? I do not know. If there is chance of discharge, you might want to anchor your mast as well.

Shortest path. Often from that part that fastens stays that destroyed in demasting video, often from mast step. Shortest path.
Steel boats are okay. If hit, discharge can easily blow a through hole into the hull of wood, glass, Ferro .

Up North in cyclone areas many hang chain from stays to allow feel of short path to ground. Avoids a big hole. Pool noodles is in thought regarding chaffing. No tension, simplifying a storms path to pass age and grow strong.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by JebLostInSpace

I'm also looking for advice on which size to get in the Spade. Spade's sizing recommendation chart is shown below. My Hunter 410 is 41 feet and displaces 20,000 lbs. That would put me in the 33 lb on length, or the 44 lb for weight as their recommended anchor. Since it's meant to be a storm anchor, I figure that means I should look at the 55 lb or 66 lb versions. It's almost a $300 price difference, which will sting but in the realm of preventing hurricane damage I'll gladly take the hit if the 66 lb is the right choice.

1. Will I have a lot of difficulty deploying/recovering an anchor that big? I have an electric windlass that I believe will handle the weight. But the anchor will be too big for my bow roller, so I'll have to heave it inboard from the roller by hand when recovering.

3. It will be a huge PITA to store. It's heavy, so I'd want to find somewhere low and central to stow it when cruising, but I don't have many good options for something that big and awkwardly shaped. The easiest spot would be in the lazarette right aft. Is it worth worrying about 65 lbs back there?

Another way to approach the problem might be to determine what the biggest and heaviest anchor -- out of all available viable choices -- might fit on your bow roller and work with your windlass permanently.

The Spade might be a good choice, but you might also find an Excel or a Mantus or Rocna or Fortress or SuperMAX or whatever could be equally nifty and maybe wouldn't come with the additional deployment/recovery/storage pain.

Two random thoughts about anchors in general:

- We've used the adjustable SuperMAX for a long time; ugly, but works very well... and the typical size/weight they recommend for a "working" anchor is the same as for a "storm" anchor

- We've used oversized Fortress anchors for a long time, mostly as back-up but sometimes as primary. They're lighter for size -- so if you have to go with something that won't fit your roller permanently, you could conceivably man-handle a big-a$$ Fortress easier than the same weight something else -- and can get pretty huge toward the top end of their range. Some might balk because of directional changes over the course of a hurricane, but I can tell you once we've buried a Fortress properly it stays buried, without regard to reversing winds or currents. And of course they stow sometimes more easily, when dismantled.

- What is the substrate where you will anchor? Since you're fairly location-specific, maybe you can take extra pains to match anchor type to holding grounds? I mention this only because I know some anchors don't work well in some stuff (e.g., Delta not great in slime, etc.) and while most of the newer anchors might be less prone to being that picky, you at least have freedom to consider that during your shopping phase.

-Chris

[Manateeman]

Obviously Fortress is our primary Hurricane anchor. I think you need two.
I think the 180 degree wind change is difficult for any anchor design.
The chafe point is often where failure occurs.
Forgot to mention, it’s nice to have a very strong attachment point at the waterline. Helps the boat ride up and over waves rather than nose dive into them.
Another system not frequently mentioned is used in Alaska by commercial fishermen. They use big net floats. Their line goes from the boat parallel to the water, to the floats then down to the anchor.
Works well in high winds and seas.
Happy trails to you.
The manatee crew.

[GreenWave]

Not sure you need heavier than the 55 lbs. I don't envy carrying that sucker from stern to bow and back.

[CruiseN]

Attachment at waterline I likey likey. Reducing rockers leverage.

I'm just in process of buying a berth and at 13.5 metres it's a longer boat than I'm used to but physics is physics.

So whilst I look up and wonder why the moon face always faces Earth, why the moon orbit is precisely the ratio of diameter difference between moons and Earths, why before any of us were born, the arrival of the moon gifted us with a physically?impossible? orbit that now generates what we know as tides and somehow lead us to creation of life upon planet as we know it.

Tied.. I'm not ruling out flat rocker rockets as my vessel, nor full length hides, nor any length between.
They all have pros and cons.
But if I was to venture with a relatively fast rocker cruiser I'd be looking at attachment additions for shore whilst left on a pick.
Such as.. (cheers Manatee man), a low bow eye with plate armour (likey likey Kevlar plate due to corrosion and abrasion although rubber doing the work) and a chunk of slit eye thick rubber to use as fender whilst in use.
Because flat rockers are harsh on pitch!
I'd also consider the pivot as near enough to beam of mast step and find a way to heavy line or chain a run out beyond fore to attach to the rode. That's the break free point of no return. If that breaks, lines forward have already broken. Multiple springs (heavy line), attaching forward. From look of boats on offer, most have a single bollard on each quarter. That's designed to hold rode, port starboard playing together to keep her point.

And then tune it to remove her dance but keep her held with posture on point.

You're most welcome if that made sense because with less rocker they're harder to balance at rest.