Leopard 39: Leopard 39 Weight

[Canibul]

drives me crazy. We could actually afford a used version of many of these boats, but are finding we are pretty much limited by our shallow draft requirements. Even if we 'relaxed our specification' and loosened it up to 3 ft. max draft, it doesn't seem as if you can buy performance and comfort for two people to cruise, and shallow draft all in one boat. We need the equivalent of a 38-40 ft. Gemini. Nothing out there.

[smj]

Originally Posted by Canibul

drives me crazy. We could actually afford a used version of many of these boats, but are finding we are pretty much limited by our shallow draft requirements. Even if we 'relaxed our specification' and loosened it up to 3 ft. max draft, it doesn't seem as if you can buy performance and comfort for two people to cruise, and shallow draft all in one boat. We need the equivalent of a 38-40 ft. Gemini. Nothing out there.

Look at the Shittleworth designed Tek 35. Same draft as the Gem, very large comfortable interior, and will sail circles around just about any cat below 50'.

[Canibul]

Originally Posted by smj

Look at the Shittleworth designed Tek 35. Same draft as the Gem, very large comfortable interior, and will sail circles around just about any cat below 50'.

Did I get the wrong one? This is showing a 30" fixed draft. That's a whole lot more than the Gem's 18" minimum.
Used custom tek-35 catamaran for sale - Cats Away

[smj]

Originally Posted by Canibul

Did I get the wrong one? This is showing a 30" fixed draft. That's a whole lot more than the Gem's 18" minimum.
Used custom tek-35 catamaran for sale - Cats Away

There should be one on yacht world. Draft with daggerboard and rudders up should be 18".

[smj]

Originally Posted by Canibul

Did I get the wrong one? This is showing a 30" fixed draft. That's a whole lot more than the Gem's 18" minimum.
Used custom tek-35 catamaran for sale - Cats Away

The one your looking at has stern extensions done so they had to go with a fixed rudder not kick-up.

[Canibul]

Okay. I found another one to look at. Sexy looking boat, but not what the Admiral is going to consider a comfortable spacious feeling little cruiser,.

Not a lot of the Tek35s on the market, either. There are a lot of choices in Gemini's usually, with such a large customer base.

[smj]

The interior of the Tek 35 is huge, much bigger than the Gemini. But you do miss out on thebridgedeck cabin.

[Sand crab]

So you need a daggerboard or centerboard cat. Back in the old days just about all the builders offered a choice of boards or keels. I've seen boards on a Lagoon and keels on an Outremer. So read the fine print. May I suggest the Maine Cat 41, Catana 411 and 381. Phisa and Edel also make a boarded cat I believe. The Catana 381 has an elevated rear mounted center pod helm. Nobody else makes one like this. I like the Maine Cat. Good Luck

[Canibul]

we lust after a Maine Cat 41, actually. Unfortunately, there are not many around.

As for something like the Catana 381, with fixed rudders and daggerboards...that's actually worse for our purposes than something with a sacrificial keel. And comments about the keels of a PDQ being only slightly damaged and not sinking the boat....well that kinda skips over the fact that you now need a boatyard with a travel lift that can pick the boat out of the water to fix it, and you are going to be in that boatyard for several day$. Don't know if it's unusual, but when the Victory 35 "Dancing Dolphin" got hauled here to replace an impact damaged keel, they were in the yard about a month. I don't know the repair bill.

Here's the criteria; One hull passes right over a coral head that is three feet from the surface.

What happens to the boat?
What's the damage?
Do you lose control of the boat?

So far, whats the competition to a Gemini? Nothing apples to apples, really.

[Southern Star]

Canibul, from my recollection of similar posts and threads over the last couple of years, your mind has been made up to get a Gemini for quite some time. Sounds as if you are satified that it fits your criteria better than any other boat, so why not just go for it? Ultimately, nobody but you can say what your priorities should be and nobody can (or should) criticize your choice of a Gemini - they are decent boats at a decent price and yes, they certainly have shoal draft.

Getting back to the subject of this thread, the relatively high weight and the relatively modest performance of the Leopard 39 should come as a surpirse to no one. All boats are compromises and as a result, surely the only way to fairly assess a boat is to compare it with its design brief. In the case of the Leopard 39, can there be any doubt that its primary intended use (or design brief) is as a boat for the Charter fleets of the world? In essence, a boat intended to be built to a price that maximizes accomodation and that has benign sailing attributes, even when sailed by inexperienced sailors, sailing almost exclusively in protected waters during moderate conditions? Performance (and efforts at saving weight) just weren't part of the equation.

For charter companies (and most charter parties), or for persons who have a similar list of priorities, it seems to be a pretty successful design and build.

Brad

[Sand crab]

I think that Maine Cat is sold or delisted. Here's a Moxie that's set up a bit like a Maine Cat. This baby is really fast. And it's almost new.
2009 MOXIE YACHTS Island Hopper Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
Here's a nice Catana 381 with an extra bimini over the helm. They do have 3'6" draft with boards up.
1998 Catana 381 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

[Canibul]

That Moxie 37 looks really sweet.

[Canibul]

Originally Posted by Southern Star

Canibul, from my recollection of similar posts and threads over the last couple of years, your mind has been made up to get a Gemini for quite some time. Sounds as if you are satified that it fits your criteria better than any other boat, so why not just go for it? Ultimately, nobody but you can say what your priorities should be and nobody can (or should) criticize your choice of a Gemini - they are decent boats at a decent price and yes, they certainly have shoal draft.

Because I keep hoping someone will point out a boat to me that equals the Gemini draft, but has the other catamaran features and performance we like.

We really don't much like the looks of the Gemini, compared to other cats. We just keep dragging our feet hoping to either justify something else, or hoping someone, somewhere builds a new boat that we like better.

[smj]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

I think that Maine Cat is sold or delisted. Here's a Moxie that's set up a bit like a Maine Cat. This baby is really fast. And it's almost new.
2009 MOXIE YACHTS Island Hopper Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
Here's a nice Catana 381 with an extra bimini over the helm. They do have 3'6" draft with boards up.
1998 Catana 381 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

I liked a lot about the Catana 381 except the throne you steer from kind of ruined it for me. Now pull that of and rig a couple of tillers like the old Catana 39....:..that would catch my interest.

[Canibul]

I agree with you about that helm station. It looks like there should be a big sweaty guy beating on a drum while another one looks on with a whip in hand.