Free: Free Advice from an actively-looking buyer

[LeeV]

Originally Posted by dparker

Thanks for the answer Lee, you didn't disappoint. I was not looking for cool, I am more interested in how people cope with their changing needs, so your answer was spot on.

My changing needs have some overlap (age related limitations) but intended us also means my current cat is not big enough. We're planning on the same use as you are, so similar boats are in our list, though a bit older to lower the budget a bit. The big three are not perfect, but they are the big three for good reasons. Though we are including the Voyage 440 in our list.

Thanks, and good luck with your search.

Great! I often get disappointed looks of, “wow, you’re giving up 15 kts for one of those?” 😲😲😲😲

I do like the V440, but bridgedeck clearance is low, and somewhere I’ve seen a YouTube of a couple on their way to Fiji laughing as the cover above the hatch and galley items are slamming, all while he jokes about the sturdiness of the Voyage yachts! 🤪 nice performers though. 44' Voyage - loaded and ready for new adventures

Our yacht age range may widen down to @ 2008 or more/less depending on engine hours and condition. A nice Leopard 46, 44, or Helia 44 would be great, with the latter 2 only happening as more time goes by. I might even consider a Lagoon 440, but only for the space, cockpit and layout. I hate those vertical windows!

Just an FYI for fun - preferences, hers and mine:

3 cabin
Light updated interior
Galley up
2 heads (guess I could live with 3)
Sprit for Code 0 w/furler
Large cockpit that blends to the salon on one level
Forward cockpit (wife!)
Raised bridge; no fly bridge
All controls at helm
Elec winch for main

Hope that’s of some interest,

[dparker]

I have seen that video. In fact I exchanged emails with the owner to talk about the slamming. I'd be happy to share what he said via email if you'd like. dlukeparker at windhavengroup dot com if you want to get it.

I do expect that a V440 will have some slamming issues. They aren't (allegedly) as bad as the boat in that video, which is a 430, as the 440 made some significant hull design changes including more reserve buoyancy in the bows. I don't think that resolved the issue by any means. The high width to length ratio contributes to the problem, along with the low bridge deck.

However, my intended use for the boat means that I might be unhappy about the slamming for a few days each year, but happy about the rest of it all the other days. I love the low maintenance interior design and system construction details and so does my wife.

And they are pretty fast for a cruiser.

A few years ago one of them one the Harvest Moon Regatta from Galveston to Corpus Christi in a year when many boats retired early with major damage from the storm. I saw several battered boats limp back into the marina here.

Here's a clip of the winning boat during the race.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iv4naeYl2yw

Surfing, sure. But they do move pretty good.

Owners love them, not that you can always learn much from that fact. I've also read a number of posts on this forum by frequent charterers who rated the V440 the best sailing cat in their charter experiences.

So, if I was going to be doing passages over three or four days long, I'd be pretty worried about the slamming. As I doubt I'll do more than that, I am only somewhat worried.

Still not sure, but for now it is the top boat on my list.

My list is a little unusual because the admiral insists on being able to use the ditch for at least the North Carolina part of the snow bird route. I feel much the same. Going inside gives you options if you are unlucky with weather. So the boat has to clear some 65' bridges. Leaves the Leopard 45/46 right out, dang it. And a lot of recent Lagoons too. Most anything over 42 feet except the V440.

Cheers

[FutureStories]

You guys are really gonna enjoy what we’re doing now:

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/200...dard%20listing

We started doing “virtual tours” with high res photos that load quickly on a phone

We wanted to make hard to grasp layouts easier to figure out, sellers to get boats cleaner “now MR. Jones get all that spare oil off the boat it’ll show in the pictures”, and it’s really cool.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by chris mac

Just to offer a different perspective;-)
My wife and i have flipped a few houses. The worst thing for us was all those TV shows teaching people how to stage.
Seeing a house(or boat) how it actually looks day to day tells me more about its condition.
I can see through clutter, and visualize potential. But I have also had a lot of experience doing it.
The really good houses (and boats) that are not staged also tend to sit on the market longer, allowing me time to see them.
I guess what I'm saying is non staged allows the possibility of finding a diamond in the rough. If they are all staged you are trying to eliminate the pigs with lipstick.

Staging is a good idea...if it means keeping things neat and clean. The idea of spending significant dollars staging...is just stupid.

When we've sold, we make sure everything is reasonably clean and clutter is put away when we leave the boat but nothing excessive...make sure the bed is made and the dishes are done, etc... A cheap thing that helps with the wives (yeah, sexist but it's true) is to put out a couple wine glasses and a bottle on the salon table with a few boat magazines fanned out on the main salon table...take no effort and if they buy I'm happy to give them a $5 bottle of wine (if not no money lost as we can drink it).

As a buyer, a neat clean boat is nice as it suggests an owner who has maintained the boat but I'm realistic person and I'm not going to be scared away by a little clutter. It's damage that I'm focused on.

Problem is a lot of boat sales are remote by people who aren't that interested. Someone dies or the wife is forcing the sale, they just don't get too involved and don't put any effort into it. Use that to your advantage and make low offers, they might bite.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Bensdad

When you see the phrase "As Is, Where Is", pictures like that come to mind.

Vast majority of canned sales agreements include that or a similar phrase.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by TWB

Maybe I should add, that with clean photos and a realistic price, I've had a contract within a week on every boat I've sold. Without a broker.

If they all sold within a week without a broker, you were either incredibly lucky or you under priced the boats.

Nothing wrong with that if a quick sale was your priority but don't think it was due to good photos.

[LeeV]

Originally Posted by dparker

I have seen that video. In fact I exchanged emails with the owner to talk about the slamming. I'd be happy to share what he said via email if you'd like. dlukeparker at windhavengroup dot com if you want to get it.

I do expect that a V440 will have some slamming issues. They aren't (allegedly) as bad as the boat in that video, which is a 430, as the 440 made some significant hull design changes including more reserve buoyancy in the bows. I don't think that resolved the issue by any means. The high width to length ratio contributes to the problem, along with the low bridge deck.

However, my intended use for the boat means that I might be unhappy about the slamming for a few days each year, but happy about the rest of it all the other days. I love the low maintenance interior design and system construction details and so does my wife.

And they are pretty fast for a cruiser.

A few years ago one of them one the Harvest Moon Regatta from Galveston to Corpus Christi in a year when many boats retired early with major damage from the storm. I saw several battered boats limp back into the marina here.

Here's a clip of the winning boat during the race.

Surfing, sure. But they do move pretty good.

Owners love them, not that you can always learn much from that fact. I've also read a number of posts on this forum by frequent charterers who rated the V440 the best sailing cat in their charter experiences.

So, if I was going to be doing passages over three or four days long, I'd be pretty worried about the slamming. As I doubt I'll do more than that, I am only somewhat worried.

Still not sure, but for now it is the top boat on my list.

My list is a little unusual because the admiral insists on being able to use the ditch for at least the North Carolina part of the snow bird route. I feel much the same. Going inside gives you options if you are unlucky with weather. So the boat has to clear some 65' bridges. Leaves the Leopard 45/46 right out, dang it. And a lot of recent Lagoons too. Most anything over 42 feet except the V440.

Cheers

Yep, I’ve seen all of the videos that are out there, and I’d be tempted if I was younger and single. Here’s another perspective from a wel respected person in the business. I’d rather not divulge the source as I started a @#$&storm the last time I did that.

“Hi Lee, I dont remember this V44 but I have delivered a couple of them and i sold 2 of them. They sail well, point well and are fast. Very low bridge deck is good and bad. They are very noisey boats the hulls transmit and amplify sound like crazy, tiny wavelets at anchor are loud as hell, plus tiny heads and akward cockpit access are the negitaves. I dont think you would be happy with this one. An older design with bad head room and limited access for service make it difficult to work on. ******** says no dont even think about it. She and I delivereld one for a week, she wasnt impressed. Lol”

My wife didn’t like the narrow deck passageways, interior space, layout,....

We would also like an ICW friendly boat if possible; we’ll ultimately leave Md and move to Fl, but the ICW removes the whole Hatteras thing, which taught me a lesson, even aboard the Pride of Baltimore II. Lagoon offered the mast as an option on the 440 and 450, and I know there are several out there. The Helia had the same. Here’s another option; cutting the mast. While it seemed bizarre at first, there are quite a few who’ve done this with very small reduction in performance. Here’s a post with a recent price quote: http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ht-211793.html

We discussed it and decided that we’d just wait for a weather window go out and around the low bridges if the boat was a steal.

Heck, we might wind up with a newer Leopard 40 the way our tastes diverge, and our budget shrinks!


Who knows!

[dparker]

Very interesting Lee. Hadn't thought about shortening a mast. I'd think that you'd have some performance loss for that, but it is so hard to tell what these cats are capable of. So many of them are rigged and equipped for charter with sail plans that can't get near the boat's capability, it is hard to know what is possible.

We might end up going smaller anyway, with just the two of us. Leopard 40 is also in the top three on our list.

[dparker]

You are right FutureStories, I do love it. Excellent photo set, nice job!

[LeeV]

Originally Posted by dparker

Very interesting Lee. Hadn't thought about shortening a mast. I'd think that you'd have some performance loss for that, but it is so hard to tell what these cats are capable of. So many of them are rigged and equipped for charter with sail plans that can't get near the boat's capability, it is hard to know what is possible.

We might end up going smaller anyway, with just the two of us. Leopard 40 is also in the top three on our list.

FYI...i wouldn’t cut a mast, but if we decided a 40 is enough, I’d have no hesitation because that boat is solid; I’d sail it offshore anywhere. That said, this will be our last boat (!) and a 40 can get crowded -even for 2- for weeks or months at a time, esp with friends/family visiting.

We discussed it at length last night and today, and decided we don’t want to limit ourselves to the ICW. At some point we’ll go offshore to the Bahamas or Block Island, Martha’s Vineyard, etc... so if the boat isn’t ICW friendly we’ll duck in and out in rough weather (or just sit tight somewhere) and otherwise stay offshore, saving weeks, fuel and some (not all) boring motoring. I’ve been on the ICW with power boats and barges and it wasn’t exactly sightseeing!

Just my opinion for comparison’s sake.

[LeeV]

Originally Posted by FutureStories

You guys are really gonna enjoy what we’re doing now:

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/200...dard%20listing

We started doing “virtual tours” with high res photos that load quickly on a phone

We wanted to make hard to grasp layouts easier to figure out, sellers to get boats cleaner “now MR. Jones get all that spare oil off the boat it’ll show in the pictures”, and it’s really cool.

Yep, another valuable tool!

Thanks,

[theBeachBoy]

Originally Posted by FutureStories

You guys are really gonna enjoy what we’re doing now:

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/200...dard%20listing

We started doing “virtual tours” with high res photos that load quickly on a phone

We wanted to make hard to grasp layouts easier to figure out, sellers to get boats cleaner “now MR. Jones get all that spare oil off the boat it’ll show in the pictures”, and it’s really cool.

How do you get pictures/slideshow full-size on a phone?

Click on picture = nothing
Change orientation = picture only on half left side smaller than portrait mode!

It annoys me SO MUCH to browse YW on my mobile.

[DeValency]

Originally Posted by FutureStories

You guys are really gonna enjoy what we’re doing now:

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/200...dard%20listing

We started doing “virtual tours” with high res photos that load quickly on a phone

We wanted to make hard to grasp layouts easier to figure out, sellers to get boats cleaner “now MR. Jones get all that spare oil off the boat it’ll show in the pictures”, and it’s really cool.

I love these 360 deg imaging of a boat - extremely helpful as if I was really there - actually even better than being there as I can’t remember all the details even by taking multiple pictures and videos. Great job!

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by FutureStories

We started doing “virtual tours” with high res photos that load quickly on a phone

I do like the virtual tour. It helps a lot. What I would like even more is an actual layout diagram of the boat. Ads with those in them very definitely catch my attention.

[theBeachBoy]

Originally Posted by denverd0n

I do like the virtual tour. It helps a lot. What I would like even more is an actual layout diagram of the boat. Ads with those in them very definitely catch my attention.

+1

Diagramme is a must, even on pictures, even with 360 it's hard to tell sometimes because doors are closed and next picture is from inside a room, etc.