Are You Troubled ENOUGH ?

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Yes. I know most of us care.

But, clearly, our care is NOT enough. We are too few, and our actions get lost in the damage brought about with "development" and "progress".

Development and progress bring more money to people who already own a lot, while destroying the world for everybody. In the same process, by working and consuming as we do, we add our own damage - small on individual scale, but huge once added up.

Awareness of such facts makes me extremely sad.

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...-un-report-aoe
Yours,
barnakiel

I agree with you totally. makes me very sad. It is predicted that ALL the large mammals will be gone by ~2050. Elephants, Rhinos, Hippos, Giraffes, Lions, Tigers, Wildebeest, Oxen, Puma, Tapir, Panthers, etc

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

I agree with you totally. makes me very sad. It is predicted that ALL the large mammals will be gone by ~2050. Elephants, Rhinos, Hippos, Giraffes, Lions, Tigers, Wildebeest, Oxen, Puma, Tapir, Panthers, etc

You know, of course, what the next large mammal will be after those are gone: homo sapiens...

[Marathon1150]

Originally Posted by svfinlandia

I have said most of my adult life (I am now 73) that most of our world problems could be at least helped if not solved by education.

Al, S/V Finlandia

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Actually, that "privileged class" are more likely to get upset about progress as they already have their wealth.

I wouldn't call ecological damage, habitat loss, or extinctions "progress", but maybe it's just me.

Who cares if you shut down some poor person's farm or the plant they work at so the "privileged class" can retain a pretty view.

Productive farms, factories being shut down because of "the view"... when has that ever happened, seriously? And how about the tons of abandoned factories, oil wells, mines, dumps and brownlands that companies have just walked away from without cleaning them up?

Landowners complaining about anchored yachts, yes, but that's just two different types of well-off folks having a spat.

I'm not suggesting we shouldn't manage progress but the people often hurt most by poorly crafted eco-faith typically hurt those with the least say.

This doesn't have enough truth to even qualify as an excuse.

[sailorboy1]

I am troubled!

About what this thread is about and what is hoped to be accomplished with it.

[Rubicon King]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

I am troubled!

About what this thread is about and what is hoped to be accomplished with it.

Amen. I first read this and was additionally troubled at what the point of this was. to drive a debate on climate change, to save we need to clean up plastics from the oceans, or to consolidate exhaust scrubbers on all coal factories. please

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Rubicon King

Amen. I first read this and was additionally troubled at what the point of this was. to drive a debate on climate change, to save we need to clean up plastics from the oceans, or to consolidate exhaust scrubbers on all coal factories. please

Did you read the OP, and its link? If yes, does it bother you? Pretty simple.

[rmesfo]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Yes. I know most of us care.

But, clearly, our care is NOT enough. We are too few, and our actions get lost in the damage brought about with "development" and "progress".

Development and progress bring more money to people who already own a lot, while destroying the world for everybody. In the same process, by working and consuming as we do, we add our own damage - small on individual scale, but huge once added up.

Awareness of such facts makes me extremely sad.

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...-un-report-aoe


Yours,
barnakiel

You are not being shot at, the media outlests have become nothng but propaganda sites for the owners political and business agenda, and you really can't trust a politician of any country or party at the current time. Be thankful for what you do have, enjoy the moment and work for better times.
And have a beer!

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by FabioC

I have lost interest in diving recently. It is too sad. I went to Maui two years in a row and dove at the same spot. In just one year, a vibrant reef full of marine life was now dead. I came back from that dive incredibly depressed.
I then dove in Thailand near Maya Beach, it was so crowded underwater that different groups had to stay at different depth so they would not hit each other. When we emerged, the dive boats were waiting in line to pick up their divers, there were easily hundred divers waiting for pick up. The various dive masters had flags of different colors to distinguish themselves from others so the dive boat could find the group. And of course, no marine life. It was surreal. We canceled our remaining dives there.

There are still pristine spots (I am not telling where), but generally speaking this is too sad to accept it and do nothing.

This is one reason I got so involved with cave diving. Many of the ones in north Florida are too demanding to allow mobs of divers although the water quality in many has declined.

There are a few nice reefs to dive but they are getting fewer and far between.

[Peregrine1983]

You may ask yourself
What is that beautiful house?
You may ask yourself
Where does that highway go to?
And you may ask yourself
Am I right? Or am I wrong?
And you may say to yourself
"My God! What have I done?"

[sanibel sailor]

One only needs to make one decision for the rest of your activities (good or bad) to be relatively inconsequential. Don't reproduce. The problem is too many humans, period. We can be as "green" as possible, but there are still too many of us, and it is going up steeply. Mother Nature will come up with a solution to overpopulation. Covid-19 was a weak attempt. Hang on for the next updated model.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by sanibel sailor

One only needs to make one decision for the rest of your activities (good or bad) to be relatively inconsequential. Don't reproduce. The problem is too many humans, period.

Not exactly. The world can actually support the current human population and more. The problem comes from all of them wanting to have the same advantages and stuff that most of us on CF have had.

On the population score, I'm a bit encouraged by the fact that the more educated and secure a population becomes, the lower their birthrate.

I'm also encouraged by my observation that as our lockdown was eased, I saw more people out just enjoying the parks, small family picnics, a bike ride, etc. Even though they might have been laid off or otherwise financially pinched. It is possible to live a good life without spending a ton or making a big mess.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

I am troubled!

About what this thread is about and what is hoped to be accomplished with it.

And why are you troubled by the subject of this thread? Is it because you see it as an unpleasant, uncomfortable fact of modern life or is it because you think it irrelevant or invalid?

As far as what it might accomplish? If it raises the awareness of just one person to the problems isn't that justification enough? If someone contributes just one idea that is new to one reader that might contribute to cleaner oceans or a better environment wouldn't that be enough?

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by Don C L

(...)



Our population is continuing to grow, within a finite system. Either we figure out how to limit the growth and use resources in a sustainable way, or nature will do it for us.

Indeed. But this (limiting our fertility) is something unacceptable to an average religious mind. Whatever the religion, unlimited multiplication seems to be at their root. It was fine when our small planet was vastly wild, and two small religious groups fought for dominance. Directions like "go and populate the Earth" were perfectly fine 5000 BC.


However, now that the Earth has been populated, we fail to shift from what was wisdom and a sure success map 7 thousand years ago, to what the success map for tomorrow would be.

barnakiel

[wolfgal]

Hey Barn,

yes, definitely.

as an early-bird to that worry party, i've struggled with the fatigue as well. after years of and years of picking up garbage (beaches, while swimming, diving), working with an environmental agency that set up recycling in neighbourhoods, and truly living low-impact (each can make this effort), i realised that no grand-scale effort will roll in until IT IS TOO LATE.

it is only when the everything needs fixing, you will see women in office. you will see young girls getting an education. you will see long-term planning, cooperation, nurturing, and the acknowledgement that it is civilisation's first duty (to itself) to care for the health of the planet.

...but that is only if humans are still around to fix it. the way i see it: we will be lucky if we live to regret what we've lost.

then again, maybe c-19 will maintain population at sustainable levels... maybe we will have learned our lesson before all is lost.

my feeling is that the biosphere is already past the point of no return, but, deep down, i so want to be wrong.