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Old 27-06-2021, 18:53   #76
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Angry Re: For all promoting flare guns for self defense

Three words - Sir Peter Blake
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Old 27-06-2021, 19:31   #77
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Re: For all promoting flare guns for self defense

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingharry View Post
In New York City, you will go to jail for having it in your possession. Below deck in a locker is possession. No questions, no excuses. My son in law works for a high end security firm there, and they can't get permits for weapons.
People have been arrested for changing planes in NY with guns in checked luggage.
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Old 27-06-2021, 19:46   #78
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Re: For all promoting flare guns for self defense

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Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
No, what you say isn’t correct. We have reported guns at least 50 times and in about 20 countries and never even had to turn them in, not even in countries where this is how it it’s supposed to work that way. We could always check out where we wanted, often different places incl. the Bahamas where we just returned from.

You don’t need to license the gun in countries you visit. It just needs to be a legal gun with supporting documentation (from the country the gun was bought legally) and then report it to customs when they ask.
This is my plan, carry a small gauge shotgun (for sharks), and check it in when required.

I keep a healthy sized knife (for coconuts, and butchering larger fish).

Yes I expect to turn any weapons in while in port. I also expect some of my cruising fee to cover coast guard assistance while anchored there. I also expect my weapons back when I leave for remote, and dangerous areas, and open sea.

Correct me if I'm wrong.
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Old 27-06-2021, 19:47   #79
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Re: For all promoting flare guns for self defense

A few thoughts:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisJHC View Post
Having to be within a foot before having a chance of being effective means that you’ve already lost!
With that attitude? You're right. If your assailant is armed with a fire-arm, and you aren't? Good luck, unless you can get within a foot of them, than you have a fighting chance.

As to the post about 'marbles', I did wade through the linked thread, couldn't find them either. That said, marbles are a good less-than-lethal ammo from a quality sling-shot. Have used them a few times on the idiot neighbor's dog, when he used to use my back yard as the toilet (felt bad about it; would rather have used it on the neighbor himself).

One of the best 'weapons' for self-defense is situational awareness. Following that is mental preparedness. That means having a plan on how you will deal with unwelcome 'guests', and, to what degree you are willing to harm them.

A flare 'launcher' is still a 'gun'.

Pepper-powder, inside the cabin, is as likely to be as debilitating to the defender as to the aggressor, just like pepper-spray.

Anything can be a weapon, if you know what to do with it.
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Old 27-06-2021, 20:06   #80
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Re: For all promoting flare guns for self defense

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This is my plan, carry a small gauge shotgun (for sharks), and check it in when required.

Correct me if I'm wrong.
If you are going to carry a shotgun why a "small gauge"? Less effective against sharks, or other 'aquatic threats'.

Carry a 12 and be done with it. I recommend #4 buck shot (not to be confused with #4 birdshot!). At 25' it has a 6-8" spread of around two dozen .24" pellets, has enough power to take down whitetail deer (at longer ranges) but is unlikely to blow a hole in the boat (except at near point-blank range).
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Old 27-06-2021, 20:07   #81
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Re: For all promoting flare guns for self defense

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Three words - Sir Peter Blake
Do you know what happened? He shot one pirate, then his gun jammed and he was shot. The lesson is that you need a reliable gun, maintain it and be proficient with it.

There have been many incidents of pirates attacking cruisers (there’s a good book on the subject that includes Sir Peter Blakes case as well) and in every case where the cruisers could delay pirates entry (lock companionway) and make it known they were armed (fire warning shot out through hatch or porthole) the attack failed. That is a 100% success rate for armed cruisers.
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Old 27-06-2021, 20:13   #82
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Re: For all promoting flare guns for self defense

Not talking from experience, but weaponless, and in caribbean waters, it may work for you to quickly dress up like an old-style voodoo shaman, singing "Vodou Mayeee, Vodou Mayeee" !
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Old 27-06-2021, 20:28   #83
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Re: For all promoting flare guns for self defense

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Originally Posted by capn_billl View Post
People have been arrested for changing planes in NY with guns in checked luggage.
When?

How did local LEO's know there was a gun in the checked luggage?
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Old 27-06-2021, 20:43   #84
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Re: For all promoting flare guns for self defense

Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
where the cruisers could delay pirates entry (lock companionway)


That's half the battle right there. I'll wager most attacks are opportunistic. The attackers are looking for 'soft targets'.

If you have to defend yourself, it is far better to do so from an established defensive position, than to meet you attacker on 'equal terms'.
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Old 27-06-2021, 21:13   #85
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Re: For all promoting flare guns for self defense

Just as a note of caution. If you shoot someone in most of the western world outside of the US you are very likely to end up in jail even if for self defense.
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Old 27-06-2021, 21:31   #86
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Re: For all promoting flare guns for self defense

Quote:
Originally Posted by garyfdl View Post
When?

How did local LEO's know there was a gun in the checked luggage?
To clarify, here’s how it goes down. I went through an academy with a former Port Authority of NY/NJ (airport) cop. These cases often get tossed out with help from a good attorney, but you end up with an arrest on your record and almost never get your firearm back.

1) Passenger legally declares and checks firearm. Legal to own in state of departure and state of destination. All is well. Flight gets diverted to NY because of weather/mechanical/******* passengers, connecting flight out of NY gets canceled. Passenger collects checked bag at baggage claim (bc they are going to the airport hotel for the night and need clothes), meanwhile PAPD has eyes on the bag, knowing a firearm is in it. You pick up the bag, they pick you up. Even if it gets tossed out, it’s technically a gun collar, so they have no problem putting you in cuffs to pad their numbers.

2) Similar to above, except passenger is flying into a NY airport to then drive home to NJ/PA/CT. Or the opposite. They show up to the ticket counter after a drive from out of state, declare their firearm, and PAPD collars them for criminal possession of a weapon.

They used to put tags on the outside of checked bags to identify which ones had firearms, but stopped doing that a few years ago. Rampers were stealing handguns from checked bags. I’m sure it makes it harder for PAPD now, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they have other ways to figure it out.
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Old 27-06-2021, 22:34   #87
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Re: For all promoting flare guns for self defense

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Originally Posted by C420sailor View Post
To clarify, here’s how it goes down. I went through an academy with a former Port Authority of NY/NJ (airport) cop. These cases often get tossed out with help from a good attorney, but you end up with an arrest on your record and almost never get your firearm back.

1) Passenger legally declares and checks firearm. Legal to own in state of departure and state of destination. All is well. Flight gets diverted to NY because of weather/mechanical/******* passengers, connecting flight out of NY gets canceled. Passenger collects checked bag at baggage claim (bc they are going to the airport hotel for the night and need clothes), meanwhile PAPD has eyes on the bag, knowing a firearm is in it. You pick up the bag, they pick you up. Even if it gets tossed out, it’s technically a gun collar, so they have no problem putting you in cuffs to pad their numbers.

2) Similar to above, except passenger is flying into a NY airport to then drive home to NJ/PA/CT. Or the opposite. They show up to the ticket counter after a drive from out of state, declare their firearm, and PAPD collars them for criminal possession of a weapon.

They used to put tags on the outside of checked bags to identify which ones had firearms, but stopped doing that a few years ago. Rampers were stealing handguns from checked bags. I’m sure it makes it harder for PAPD now, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they have other ways to figure it out.
You went through 'an' academy with a PA cop and he told you this? What academy? How long ago?

If the case gets tossed, you can have the record expunged (granted not an automatic thing) and if you don't get the gun back you sue. The 4th Amendment applies in NYC just like it does every where else in the US.

I have traveled with firearms in my baggage, off and on, for over 30 years, including into and out of LaGuardia and JFK. Never did they put a firearm tag outside the bag; I have never been stopped.

And (again) how would PAPD know there was a firearm in the bag? Are the gate agents telling them? Sorry, not buying it.

I think your 'source' was 'blowing smoke'.

Also, for the record:

United States Code Title 18 - Part I - Chapter 44
§ 926A. Interstate Transportation of Firearms

Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm

State / city law does not trump the Feds.
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Old 28-06-2021, 00:01   #88
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Re: For all promoting flare guns for self defense

Traveling in The Netherlands and Germany, I learned that Orion flare guns on a US-flagged vessel are legal, but the Dutch say one cannot leave the flaregun and cartridges on board. The gun must be in a locked box and taken off the vessel when not aboard.

The Germans first wanted to know where my registration for the flare gun was, but when I told them I could buy the flaregun and have it delivered by post and there was no registration number on the pistol they let me keep it.

I replaced it with parachute flares which are much more effective.
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Old 28-06-2021, 00:32   #89
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Re: For all promoting flare guns for self defense

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Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
No, what you say isn’t correct. We have reported guns at least 50 times and in about 20 countries and never even had to turn them in, not even in countries where this is how it it’s supposed to work that way. We could always check out where we wanted, often different places incl. the Bahamas where we just returned from.

You don’t need to license the gun in countries you visit. It just needs to be a legal gun with supporting documentation (from the country the gun was bought legally) and then report it to customs when they ask.
I guess most of us don't feel comfortable telling the cop in Nassau that really, it's OK that we have a gun that is clearly not legal for us to have in the Bahamas because the customs guy we checked in with at Bimini ignored it. You may very well be comfortable with that, great! The rest of us aren't and that's why we have discussions about items we could carry on a typical cruising boat and use for defense in a pinch. Not because we're all idiots who think improvised devices are more effective than a 9mm. That's all, a difference in comfort levels not a difference in intelligence.
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Old 28-06-2021, 00:46   #90
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Re: For all promoting flare guns for self defense

Quote:
Originally Posted by capn_billl View Post
This is my plan, carry a small gauge shotgun (for sharks), and check it in when required.

I keep a healthy sized knife (for coconuts, and butchering larger fish).

Yes I expect to turn any weapons in while in port. I also expect some of my cruising fee to cover coast guard assistance while anchored there. I also expect my weapons back when I leave for remote, and dangerous areas, and open sea.

Correct me if I'm wrong.
You're not wrong, the question for most of us is "what's the point?" Unless you truly are worried about pelagic sharks, you have a gun available to you for what, 10% of the time. Unless you're in about 3-4 specific bad neighborhoods in the world, it's also the 10% of the time you're least likely to need it. Certainly something you can do, just not worth the hassle and the loss of flexibility of checking out and the same place you checked in for most of us.

As an aside, I unfortunately picked up too many dead bodies or went on searches where the bodies were never found in my time as a Coast Guard pilot. If you've put all the effort you can into ensuing you have all the safety gear and training that it's possible to get and all the experience necessary actually using that equipment, then it makes sense to talk about the vanishingly small chance you'll die from lack of a self defense weapon. Very few people can honestly say they've done that. Significantly more people die every year literally just peeing over the side of their boat than are killed by pirates, it's important to keep some perspective here.
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