How a Shipwrecked Crew Survived 10 Days Lost at Sea

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by krizzz

I also ride motorcycles. Some people choose not to wear helmet. I understand, riding without a helmet may be more pleasurable and for some it is worth the risk. Also, there is no crew.


But what do you gain by not having an EPIRB in the middle of Pacific? A few hundred bucks?

I just don't get the logic.

When you measure gain with bucks, the magic is gone. You do not get my logic, because your view is based in monetary gain. My sailing logic has nothing to do with money (much as I have just like anybody else to pay for the boat). If I cared about bucks, I would not be sailing, I would be still back in that office, counting those bucks (for clarity - somebody else's bucks, not mine).



For a motor version of my answer watch "Easy Rider".


You also ticiked Pacific, which may suggest you are a US sailor. In the US, everything is insured, everybody is insured.


In say Europe, you have countries like France, where many people opt for 'liberte' (freedom). Few small boat owners carry insurance, and not all sailors carry EPIRB (most do, in any case).



Cheers,
barnakiel

[RUSTYNAIL]

Barnakiel, you are probably correct about the insurance part. In the U.S., we live in a very lucky time, and insurance allows many people to wander out to the edge of safety limits for many hobbies. Many of us do a high wire act with a huge safety net under us. That's a good thing.
My goal is to educate mariners about EPIRBs. I may know more about how they work once they are deployed than most mariners. I dissected hundreds of U.S. EPIRB cases from the moment of activation to the last 406 MHz burst. EPIRBs and PLBs save hundreds of lives yearly and are very cost effective for mariners, and the people doing the rescuing. While I'm preaching, I hope everyone with an old EPIRB buys a new one with gps. That can allow rescue personnel to arrive on scene an hour or more sooner.

[barnakiel]

Yes. I am never ever saying "do not buy" or "do not carry one". I only let people who do not have and EPIRB / liferaft / Facebook / live their lives (or stop living them) their way.


On the technology front, I think EPIRBs were great thing when they appeared but by now are dragging WAY beyond the market technology. Galileo promised to correct this and bring them up to date, but Galileo made many promises and failed most of them.


While I understand how an EPIRB works, I think modern EPIRB designers do not know how a human works. They failed abominably to study real life cases of human survival in adverse conditions. They are placing huge stress on the importance of help to arrive say one hour or six hours sooner BUT they also pay zero attention to providing the drowning one with hope.


And hope a the main survival factor.



What I am specifically pointing at is lack of any 'your call acknowledged' feedback to the EPIRB. We press the bloody red button and then what? God knows. Except that I am not into gods territory. Rather than believe, I would want to know. And so would anybody else who has actually been in a dire emergency situation.



This problem has been sorted out already in sat messenger / tracker devices like (e.g.) InReach (and others). I press the button, the rescue center acknowledges my call, I get a confirmation. Let alone the fact that I can very clearly stipulate the reason of my concern in a short text message.


So, to sum up: I find most EPIRBs lacking. They address the technology part - because this is easy. They completely fail to address the psychology factors - to know that the rescuers know, to know that they are coming is a completely different mindset from the one of the 'God knows' attitude.


Off course, on a big ship with an Inmarsat onboard, there is no issue. But in a small boat, far offshore, I will always opt for a small sat communicator up first, and then possibly maybe (and very likely) an EPIRB second.


And then with two or three gadgets onboard, I will still say I am 100% fine with people who elect to carry none.


barnakiel

[RUSTYNAIL]

Barnikel, I wish I had more time to back up my positive feelings about EPIRBs. Money is a huge concern, and the more you add, the more chances the price will get out of the reach of many recreational part time boaters. Once the beacon gets beyond $400, you start losing customers. It's a trade off. I'd like a Rolls Royce, but I bought a Toyota. Everything you addressed has been considered by many international committees.
I have to agree with you on all you said about feedback being important. Some EPIRBs are starting to have that, plus AIS, but they are out of my range. I worked for the USCG for 42 years, so I back up my opinions with lots of investigations, where my conclusions were; if they only had a strobe light they'd be alive, then came EPIRBs, and lots of search time was saved and mariners were quickly rescued in the middle of the ocean. My biggest finding was the lack of 12 volts for communications equipment when needed, after a fire or flooding. The beauty of an EPIRB is that it likes water and floats straight up for the antenna to work efficiently and automatically activates when deployed or in case it slips out of your hand in a storm. Floating is a very important thing in any piece of emergency distress equipment. Sometimes you only have as much time as you can hold your breath to escape. One last item is the aircrew becomes independent when searching for an EPIRB at low altitudes. With the advancement of 406 MHz direction finding, the pilot can pick up the EPIRB's strong 406 signal, read the lat/long (for gps EPIRBs) and go right to the beacon. Your only concern is to stay alive.

[barnakiel]

I will disagree with the money argument.


If a USD 300 messenger unit can have two way sat communication, and a gps, and a weather service, and a tracking ability , and an SOS button, and a small color screen in it (ouuuf, a long list, you agree), then I see no reason why an EPIRB anno domini 2021 does not provide a simplest "your rescue call has been acknowledged" indicator.


I will also disagree, strongly, on "beyond 400 USD and losing consumers".


EPIRBs are obligatory on most vessels, all commercial ones and also in many countries on pleasure craft (e.g. SPAIN, where I live now). With an average diesel tank on an average cruising boat being about 400 USD a filling, I see no beyond 400 USD argument at all.


And if I am wrong, then how come a huge number consumers purchase a USD 1000 (!!!) I-phone every two or three years? How come than Apple is not starting to lose consumers but EPIRB does?



The answer is not in money, it is in the technology getting aged. EPIRB sat constellation simply lacks functionality.


I admit getting a mild but nice surprise from what you say about "... One last item is the aircrew becomes independent when searching for an EPIRB at low altitudes. With the advancement of 406 MHz direction finding, the pilot can pick up the EPIRB's strong 406 signal, read the lat/long (for gps EPIRBs) and go right to the beacon. Your only concern is to stay alive...."


I somehow imagined homing is done on the 121.5. It is interesting that now they can also home on the 406. It was not possible in the past (but since I am older now, this 'past' is somewhat ancient too).


barnakiel

[RUSTYNAIL]

I wish I was in Spain, drinking some cold beers with you. I won't argue this anymore. I don't have any data or facts to discuss why people spend money, but if you use something all day, and something else you hope to never use, may be part of the decision making. I lived in Spain (Estartit) for three years and envy wherever you are.Great people and beautiful coast. By the way, the French and Germans were way ahead of the U.S. for 406 direction finding.

[barnakiel]

Nay. No argumentative mood here at all. I think EPIRBs are great devices, even when I say there is a room for improvement.



I think you should come back to Spain live here more. I agree people here are very friendly.


Talking EPIRBs over cold beer sounds a good idea to me. Talking anything over cold beer ... ;-)


Very best regards,
barnakiel,
in Canary Islands