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**boatman61** · 31-12-2021, 08:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by redneckrob

What in the world would lead you to believe that waters outside 12 nm fall under "U.S. rules" for a foreign flagged vessel (Belize as it happens in this case). And what leads you to believe they ferry fuel from the U.S., my understanding from living on one of they Cays they service for part of the year is that they get their fuel from Freeport. As an aside, Freeport actually is a descriptive name, it's a tax free port for items in transit and as a result is used one of the major points where refined fuel is transshipped from. So it really wouldn't make much sense for them to go to the U.S. to get fuel.

Being ordered by a US warship in the Eastern Med (2010) telling me to alter course as they were not allowing boats to enter an area of water when I was delivering a UK flagged boat to Turkey.
As far as your Government is concerned you rule the world and can stop any vessel anywhere.
Where they ship fuel from was an assumption being as Florida is so close and seeing as the US subsidises fuel to an extent that has us in Europe drooling.. was not aware exports were taxable in the US.

redneckrob · 31-12-2021, 09:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by boatman61

Being ordered by a US warship in the Eastern Med (2010) telling me to alter course as they were not allowing boats to enter an area of water when I was delivering a UK flagged boat to Turkey.
As far as your Government is concerned you rule the world and can stop any vessel anywhere.
Where they ship fuel from was an assumption being as Florida is so close and seeing as the US subsidises fuel to an extent that has us in Europe drooling.. was not aware exports were taxable in the US.

I think you're confusing law enforcement of U.S. maritime laws which would be performed by the U.S. Coast Guard and a military taskforce telling you not to go where they're doing military exercises, two completely different things! I don't doubt you'd get the same thing you encountered if you wandered into a British, French, Chinese, or any other country's naval exercise on the high seas.

For the avoidance of doubt, the U.S. does not enforce U.S. laws on foreign flagged vessels in international waters unless they receive a statement of no objection from the flag state. While they can board the vessel to verify it's identification and state, that's completely different from enforcing a U.S. specific law upon boarding. There is absolutely no reason to believe that the U.S. would enforce U.S. AIS laws on foreign flag vessels in international waters, the subject under discussion. There's no indication that the Tropic Breeze was violating any AIS laws that they were subject to, except perhaps a law of common sense to keep the thing on. From my experience with the various operations serving the out islands, it wouldn't surprise me at all if their AIS broke and the company didn't shell out for a repair because they are a shoestring operation.

jeanathon · 31-12-2021, 09:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by boatman61

Where they ship fuel from was an assumption being as Florida is so close and seeing as the US subsidises fuel to an extent that has us in Europe drooling.. was not aware exports were taxable in the US.

I wouldn't say the US subsidises fuel, but rather taxes it less than Europe. A lot less. You should see the price of offroad diesel that doesn't have the highway tax.
Our oil companies are subsidized but it is a global market so that is just a win for the companies.

hukilaumike · 31-12-2021, 10:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by skipmac

Below Decks is one of the "reality" shows that have infested the great wasteland in recent years. Features crew members on megayachts doing whatever scripted BS these shows try to foist upon the world as reality.

Appearing on the show is another way to end a career in the big boat business.

Apparently, appearing on the show can be a good thing for the boat. The owner of the first boat to appear on the show insisted that they change the name for show. But since then, several of the boats that have been used for the various incarnations of the show have appeared under their own names, and the owners have gone on record as saying it's been great for business.

Is an appearance on the show good for the crews? It's certainly made celebrities out of Captain Lee and Captain Sandy. And some of the other "regulars" seem to be forging reality TV careers as well. But I have no idea if it makes a regular crew/cast member more or less employable in the business.

Fun aside: the one time I chartered a boat (50 foot cat in the VI's), the captain and the mate/cook were more than happy to talk about how inaccurate Below Decks was; they weren't hateful or nasty about it at all, just dismissive. They told us about one friend of theirs in the industry who was considering applying to be on the show, and how they all told her not to do it. I'm not at all surprised they found it dumb; after all, this captain and mate were a married couple in their sixties and not really the crew demographic the BD producers are looking for.

Is the whole thing scripted/staged? I have a friend in the reality TV business, and he assures me that it is. However, this article from the New York Times says different.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/29/s...sultPosition=2

**skipmac** · 31-12-2021, 11:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by hukilaumike

Apparently, appearing on the show can be a good thing for the boat. The owner of the first boat to appear on the show insisted that they change the name for show. But since then, several of the boats that have been used for the various incarnations of the show have appeared under their own names, and the owners have gone on record as saying it's been great for business.

Is an appearance on the show good for the crews? It's certainly made celebrities out of Captain Lee and Captain Sandy. And some of the other "regulars" seem to be forging reality TV careers as well. But I have no idea if it makes a regular crew/cast member more or less employable in the business.

Fun aside: the one time I chartered a boat (50 foot cat in the VI's), the captain and the mate/cook were more than happy to talk about how inaccurate Below Decks was; they weren't hateful or nasty about it at all, just dismissive. They told us about one friend of theirs in the industry who was considering applying to be on the show, and how they all told her not to do it. I'm not at all surprised they found it dumb; after all, this captain and mate were a married couple in their sixties and not really the crew demographic the BD producers are looking for.

Is the whole thing scripted/staged? I have a friend in the reality TV business, and he assures me that it is. However, this article from the New York Times says different.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/29/s...sultPosition=2

I can see that being on TV might work as free advertising for a boat but maybe to some market segments and not others. Like they say, there's no such thing as bad publicity at least for some people.

Have family in the megayacht business and most of the owners they deal with would not want the invasion of privacy that comes along with the show. Also would not hire crew that had been on the show out of concern that the person would be indiscrete about their employers in the future.

**JPA Cate** · 31-12-2021, 12:27

On p. 2, post #23, I wrote,

Quote:

What really gripes me about this incident is that they didn't even stick around to rescue the crew! It was the m/v Mara who did that.

Jim got me thinking about it, and i realize that I don't know if the m/v Mara was Utopia's tender or not. Therefore, the implication that there may have been vast dereliction of duty, may be really wrong. I apologize for jumping to conclusions.

Ann

Joe Okros · 31-12-2021, 13:37

LOL, I only got about 10 seconds in when all the BS overwhelmed me and I clicked on.

Bobby Lex · 31-12-2021, 14:03

According to this source, the collision may have been more of a crossing situation than an overtaking one....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sX3hqe3okIg

....which opens up a whole new can of conjecture as to which was the stand-on vessel and which was the give-way vessel.

Bob

goboatingnow · 31-12-2021, 15:40

Interesting , lots more detail is needed to determine what actually happened. I think the AIS discussion is a red herring.

Breaking Waves · 31-12-2021, 17:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

On p. 2, post #23, I wrote, Jim got me thinking about it, and i realize that I don't know if the m/v Mara was Utopia's tender or not. Therefore, the implication that there may have been vast dereliction of duty, may be really wrong. I apologize for jumping to conclusions.

Ann

Hard to know how accurate media reporting is, but the reporting now says:

"The tanker crew members were seen getting into life boats after another passing superyacht, called Amara, came to their rescue. "

jmh2002 · 31-12-2021, 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

On p. 2, post #23, I wrote, Jim got me thinking about it, and i realize that I don't know if the m/v Mara was Utopia's tender or not. Therefore, the implication that there may have been vast dereliction of duty, may be really wrong. I apologize for jumping to conclusions.

Ann

Quote:

Originally Posted by Breaking Waves

Hard to know how accurate media reporting is, but the reporting now says:

"The tanker crew members were seen getting into life boats after another passing superyacht, called Amara, came to their rescue. "

Yes I wanted to post some more info that had come to light. It was not 'Mara' (or a tender as I suggested might be possible, although there is another small boat in the photos too) that had assisted, but Motoryacht 'Amara' (57m Feadship previously well known under her former name of Calixe and based in Antibes for many years in the past).

It also seems clear that Utopia IV tried to assist too. The following article gives a small amount of detail: https://megayachtnews.com/2021/12/ut...anker-sinking/

"...according to one Instagram user commenting on what appears to be the first report of the Utopia IV collision, the yacht’s crew did try to rescue Tropic Breeze’s crew, but was unable to fully assist. That same social media user says that one of the yacht’s crew sustained injuries in the process."

And as I mentioned in an earlier post, there is an instagram photo that appears to show Utopia IV (grey superstruture visible) with their stern swim platform / garage door open (she has this less common design for her size), and life boats/rafts in the background.

Click here for the original: https://www.instagram.com/p/CX5zbzFLTAU/

gamayun · 31-12-2021, 18:35

Gosh, has not anyone here passing judgement ever rear-ended another car on the highway? Until vehicles and vessels are built autonomously, humans will always make these mistakes. Crewed or solo ...mega yacht to military and everything in between.

Icarus · 01-01-2022, 03:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllenRbrts

Maritime Management LLC, based here, has reported that a ship under the company's management, the M/T Tropic Breeze, was struck last night at 22:03 p.m. by the super yacht M/Y Utopia IV approximately 15 miles NNW of New Providence Island, The Bahamas. The 160-foot tanker was traveling on its proper watch en route to Great Stirrup Cay when it was rear-ended by the 207-foot super yacht. The catastrophic force of the collision pierced the stern of the tanker causing the tanker to sink to the ocean floor at an estimated depth of 2000 feet.

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...301450791.html

Wow, that's something..anyone hurt?

**boatman61** · 01-01-2022, 04:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by gamayun

Gosh, has not anyone here passing judgement ever rear-ended another car on the highway? Until vehicles and vessels are built autonomously, humans will always make these mistakes. Crewed or solo ...mega yacht to military and everything in between.

Its CF... lots of judgements have been passed on me over the years..
Its the nature of the beast...