Marina access in Hurricane

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by carstenb

Well let's discard the bull then.

1- your vessel was not in distress (at least according to you). You argue that it might become damaged by the storm - but at this point your vessel is perfectly sound and can be sailed, or anchored. So no distress.

2- If no distress - then no lives are in danger. If you precieve that lives are in danger - then there is nothing stopping you from taking your dinghy in, letting the boat ride out the storm, while you and your guests sit in a bar drinking tequila and watching the storm go by. So no risk of life.

3- Morals and humanitarian obligations vary from country to country, culture to culture - your morals might say that there is an obligation - that is not true for anyone else's.

4- Legal obligation. I would sincerely doubt it. The marina is not a boat at sea. At sea we do have an obligation to help sailors in distress, yet you were not in distress. No legal obligation as far as I can see

I suspect that almost everyone on this board would cheerfully put themselves at risk to help a fellow sailor in distress - we have any number of times. sometimes we've barely received thanks, other times we've been paid in that coin of the sea - a bottle of wine.

A marina really has zero obligation towards you. Had you radioed in saying, "my boat is sinking, I need to sail directly to the crane and be hauled" they might help you. denying you entrance because you are seeking shelter from an approaching hurricane is not necessarily wrong.

Well put!

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Saskatchewan

,........Joyce’s boat and many others were also robbed, they had to wait several days for help but were alive. Staying with your boat ,is it worth your life?

If it were your land or family being threatened would you abandon them?

Problem with Hindsight Advice is that you have already defined the outcome.

Life is full of risks, the worst being complacency

[kchristofferson]

La Paz is north of the 23’rd. You should be covered even with seasonally corrected insurance. I have no idea of the laws. I suspect it would be a fight to try and get relief from a marina.

I hope you left your home (assuming the Mogote) for the storm - stay safe. And I sure hope your beef isn’t with Palmira. I love those guys.

[ctskip]

[QUOTE=Shrew;2983278]I.
This does have to do with the general arrogance and unreasonable expectations which is stereotypical of my fellow Americans. [/QUOTE).

Maybe you should get out more, Labeling Americans like you have only proves to me that you are either radically biased or of foreign decent that dislikes America. Labeling Americans like that, is not in the boatsmanship style that I grew up with.

[Cadence]

[QUOTE=ctskip;2987311]

Originally Posted by Shrew

I.
This does have to do with the general arrogance and unreasonable expectations which is stereotypical of my fellow Americans. [/QUOTE).

Maybe you should get out more, Labeling Americans like you have only proves to me that you are either radically biased or of foreign decent that dislikes America. Labeling Americans like that, is not in the boatsmanship style that I grew up with.

He could have said stereotypical of some A holes I don't believe nationality is relevant. Near do wells probably is.

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by Cadence

He could have said stereotypical of some A holes I don't believe nationality is relevant. Near do wells probably is.

I'd say that Americans and French stick out in the sailing community.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

I'd say that Americans and French stick out in the sailing community.

I don't know? You could be right, Affluence of a country may spawn more near do well A holes. I've found, on the water, the well to do are hard to identify, they have nothing to prove. Excluding those with mega yachts who I haven't met.

[dcruz99801]

Boy, lots of fur flying!

1. Mexico, like other foreign countries, comes with its own laws, rules and customs. You may not agree, but there it is. Learn what they are and work with them.
2. Marina is not spelled Mother. They do what they can or must, but each tends to business in their own way.
3. Other than one reference, insurance companies are not mentioned in this but they play a big role in who can stay where -- in marinas, usually -- in the 'cane zone, and who goes north. Even <how> you anchor or tie up.
4. Going north is no guarantee - Odile hit Pto Escondido and Sta Rosalia.
5. 'Riding it out at sea' is old-school advice, but only for the strong-hearted. I got caught in a gale in Dixon Entrance and ran like a wuss to hide behind/inside an island.

LBNL, cut Seamentress some slack. They went aground in Odile, so entitled to be touchy on the subject. My boat rode it out fine in Palmira but in 2016 (Nelson?) it was at Cortez, and while their dock bucked and heaved to absorb the shock several of my dock lines and fenders and a cleat did not, and I sustained damage.

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by dcruz99801

5. 'Riding it out at sea' is old-school advice, but only for the strong-hearted. I got caught in a gale in Dixon Entrance and ran like a wuss to hide behind/inside an island.

There may be some confusion here. Some of us have advocated getting out of the marina but not to go to sea. In my view a marina is just a place with a lot of things that can poke a hole in my boat. I prefer to head somewhere protected to anchor and batten down the hatches.



I'll point out that the US Navy DOES send their capital ships to sea for much the same reason: to avoid damage to ships and facilities. Of course they are bigger than I and can go a lot faster so positioning is more reasonable. They also have plenty of help for those pesky last minute chores like fueling and provisioning.

[Group9]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

There may be some confusion here. Some of us have advocated getting out of the marina but not to go to sea. In my view a marina is just a place with a lot of things that can poke a hole in my boat. I prefer to head somewhere protected to anchor and batten down the hatches.

Marinas are hurricane killing grounds around here. Pilings are the enemy!

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Group9

Marinas are hurricane killing grounds around here. Pilings are the enemy!

Amen!

[dcruz99801]

More on Cortez: There are no pilings -- the docks are tethered to the bottom with shock cables, and move to absorb waves/surf/shocks. It did well and most of the boats in it did also, except for damages like mine in 2016 due to out-of-sync jerking. Most boats' lines, cleats and fenders are not sufficient at some point, and a number of more-exposed boats in Palmira rolled and scraped enough to suffer rub-rail and topside damage. Still, better than aground or sunk.

Several other things came out post-Odile:
-- a number of the boats out on the Mogote would have been fine, except other boats drifted down on them; they couldn't hold two boats on their anchor.
-- The boats at El Arco did not drag, better holding ground is critical.
-- some boats did not put out a 2nd anchor (some tried, too late)
-- I don't think anyone moved to Pichilinque, considered a good hole, and open to all during an event.

[zeehag]

i found myself with new neighbors to ride out narda--big fancy sports fishers came in for safety. the crews had party and enjoyed the easy storm.. i watched em checking lines andmy boat as well, so i didnt worry too hard. my issues were--my bicycle fellover, my strings holding my screens broke--just a few-- and all was well. that 71 kt gust was a whomp then storm left us. we saw 35 kts steady thru storm except that blast from wherever it came.. after that it was nice n quiet tropical storm without intention of intensification. topolobompo and escuinapa each got hammered, per reports, .. we got some damage but it looks like sheet glass and plywood sheets that came loose in that blast gust. there was more water than wind for most part

[docwood]

New to this game. So if a hurricane is imminent and it's to late to truly run and no dry dock availablewhat do most people do . Find the best wind protection possible and moore or anchor and get the heckoff the boat. Just curious, knowing that someday, hopefully no,t I'll have to make such decisions. Thanks.

[zeehag]

Originally Posted by docwood

New to this game. So if a hurricane is imminent and it's to late to truly run and no dry dock availablewhat do most people do . Find the best wind protection possible and moore or anchor and get the heckoff the boat. Just curious, knowing that someday, hopefully no,t I'll have to make such decisions. Thanks.

depends on predicted intensity. upto cat 3 many stayon board. cat 4 and 5 are deadly so leaving is done unless the boat is in a true cane hole, of which only 2 exist in mexico, ixtapa and barra de navidad. i spent patricia in barra marina. at present i am in mazatlan. i went to shore for willa but stayed for tropical storms. lorena affected us but we didnt have center or core of storm over us like we had narda.
while i was in barra we enjoyed over 50 cyclonic events skimming coast before pattybaby slammed us. most of these events are ok, but dead center hits by a mean icepick sized cat 5 intensifying over head is a lil over limits of endurance for many.

local knowledge is also important..do what locals do...