Orcas appear to have sunk a sailboat- what now?

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Accept the risks or stay in home waters, the 'Rights' home nations bestow on their citizens ends 12nm from the coast.
After that you are no nations concern till you enter another's 12nm limits.. from then on their rules apply.
Suck it up or... Sail on.

just to be pedantic , within 12nn local national laws override your flag laws

outside 12nm your flag laws apply

you are never "stateless" a law applies everywhere ( including laws that apply to citizens committing certain crimes anywhere at all )

[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by LakeSuperior

Is self righteousness a CF virtue now. With your focus on running around bare ass you may not be aware that the use electric fence is world wide to contain cattle. Bear fences actually save bears because after a bear attack on humans the bear(s) are hunted down and killed.

It is well known that electric fields are effective at deterring sharks and shark attacks. Although Orcas probably have different sensors, electric fields could be a cheap and effective solution saving both humans and Orcas.

Well, get your prod and try it!
Then when they rip off your rudder, you can report the results back to us.

These occurances aren't THAT common.
You'd be a select few that encounter an Orca.

They are curious, not so much Dangerous!

Humans on the other hand...
VERY self righteous!
Extremely Dangerous

Boatyarddog

[Bullshooter]

Originally Posted by Sailing55

Now that supreme beings and electric fences surrounding boats have been introduced into this discussion perhaps it's time to point out that the real problem here is the mentality of the "shake and bake" boaters that are running away from all the insanity they have created in their lives on shore.
The threat from Orcas pales in comparison to the destruction of a lifestyle being brought about by so many of these refugeess from so called civilization.
I seriously doubt that Orcas are plotting the takeover of the oceans of the world...we don't have an Orca problem. We have a human problem.
The only real fear I have after reading some of these comments is that the resident and visiting Orcas here in the PNW might mistake me for one of the new breed Conquistadors.

There seems to be something of an irony defecit here. I thought this was a cruising forum dedicated to boaters, including many who roam the world in their boats. Some seem to be saying these boaters have no right to be out there in the orcas' habitat, and shame on them for trying to protect themselves from attacks.

One report stated there were 236 interactions, some of which were attacks since 2020. Another source had this possibly helpful information (no date given):

"Do all interactions result in damage to the boat?
No, only 50% of the boats that are interacted with receive some kind of damage, usually to the rudder which is where the orcas concentrate most of the time. Within the boats that followed the protocol in 2021, the 53% of boats that did not have any damage to the boat was because they followed the safety protocol.


What can we do when we have an interaction?
Follow our safety protocol. This protocol has been created after collecting and analysing the testimonies of the interacted boats. When the boats stop, the animals cease their competitive interest in speed and become calmer, and although they may continue to interact for a while, usually after a while the animals themselves move away. If, on the other hand, an attempt is made to escape by speeding up the boat, on the one hand the animals are fully capable of following the speeds of most of the boats they are used to interacting with, it can even be dangerous to try to keep the boat on course, as when hitting the rudder underwater, the rudder wheel can suddenly turn uncontrollably, and it has been shown that the animals tend to hit the rudder harder, as they feel more pressure on it, and the damage to the boats tends to be greater. Orcas can be stimulated by human actions to interact with the boat, so please try to stay out of their sight and do not shout, try to hit, touch or throw things at them.

See https://www.orcaiberica.org/faq

I propose we tone down the thread and try not to attack each other, as we are all sailors or mariners, and nobody wants to harm orcas or be harmed by them.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

just to be pedantic , within 12nn local national laws override your flag laws

outside 12nm your flag laws apply

you are never "stateless" a law applies everywhere ( including laws that apply to citizens committing certain crimes anywhere at all )

That's what I said...
If your outside Spanish and Portuguese waters experiment with your so called deterants.. inside 12nm your busted.. except for the USCG/Navy... They're gods..

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by boatman61

That's what I said...
If your outside Spanish and Portuguese waters experiment with your so called deterants.. inside 12nm your busted.. except for the USCG/Navy... They're gods..

No , as your flag state may also have protections on these creatures, mine has , as many have adopted European or UN regulations pertaining to protected creatures

laws apply everywhere

and the french have big guns in that sea area too

[LakeSuperior]

Originally Posted by Boatyarddog

Well, get your prod and try it!
Then when they rip off your rudder, you can report the results back to us.

These occurances aren't THAT common.
You'd be a select few that encounter an Orca.

They are curious, not so much Dangerous!

Humans on the other hand...
VERY self righteous!
Extremely Dangerous

Boatyarddog

It was just a suggestion with some historical basis to try solve a problem. It is already established that they can be lethal to a yacht. What is your deep solution mister philosopher?

[thesaltytar]

...well the navy typically have larger rudders.

[Sailing55]

Originally Posted by Bullshooter

There seems to be something of an irony defecit here. I thought this was a cruising forum dedicated to boaters, including many who roam the world in their boats. Some seem to be saying these boaters have no right to be out there in the orcas' habitat, and shame on them for trying to protect themselves from attacks.

One report stated there were 236 interactions, some of which were attacks since 2020. Another source had this possibly helpful information (no date given):

"Do all interactions result in damage to the boat?
No, only 50% of the boats that are interacted with receive some kind of damage, usually to the rudder which is where the orcas concentrate most of the time. Within the boats that followed the protocol in 2021, the 53% of boats that did not have any damage to the boat was because they followed the safety protocol.


What can we do when we have an interaction?
Follow our safety protocol. This protocol has been created after collecting and analysing the testimonies of the interacted boats. When the boats stop, the animals cease their competitive interest in speed and become calmer, and although they may continue to interact for a while, usually after a while the animals themselves move away. If, on the other hand, an attempt is made to escape by speeding up the boat, on the one hand the animals are fully capable of following the speeds of most of the boats they are used to interacting with, it can even be dangerous to try to keep the boat on course, as when hitting the rudder underwater, the rudder wheel can suddenly turn uncontrollably, and it has been shown that the animals tend to hit the rudder harder, as they feel more pressure on it, and the damage to the boats tends to be greater. Orcas can be stimulated by human actions to interact with the boat, so please try to stay out of their sight and do not shout, try to hit, touch or throw things at them.

See https://www.orcaiberica.org/faq

I propose we tone down the thread and try not to attack each other, as we are all sailors or mariners, and nobody wants to harm orcas or be harmed by them.

I am not attacking anyone, simply pointing out that there exists a group of people who seem to believe that they reign supreme over all other forms of life wherever they choose to go. That is my opinion and I have expressed it after reading some of the comnents here.
If my opinions are so distasteful to you please ignore them...

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

No , as your flag state may also have protections on these creatures, mine has , as many have adopted European or UN regulations pertaining to protected creatures

laws apply everywhere

and the french have big guns in that sea area too

Do ships arriving with whales draped over their bulbs get busted for careless driving/COLREG's...
Bugga the French..

[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by double u

...hilarious to me, that so many contributors here, living in a country they got by exterminating the original owners of the land, now argue that "the boats entering the Orcas' living space" of course may not take protective measures that harm the animals as they are visitors

Your comment is unambiguous, WE are not ALL saying this is an answer.
Some believe it is,.... Many Disagree!

Best to NOT define all people as the same because of nationality.
I'm my Country, America, there is a huge division in the current view of The direction we should lead this great land.

Kracken pots, and Patriots of the land and Peoples we love.
This cannot be defined by the Mistakes of the Past.

But can be defined, by the direction we Choose to move forward into.
Rule of Law, not Lawlessness of the Past.

Stay tuned!
Direction is changing, I believe toward fairness and Compassion.
Toward each other and The Planet.
IMHO
Boatyarddog

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Bullshooter

There seems to be something of an irony defecit here. I thought this was a cruising forum dedicated to boaters, including many who roam the world in their boats. Some seem to be saying these boaters have no right to be out there in the orcas' habitat, and shame on them for trying to protect themselves from attacks.

One report stated there were 236 interactions, some of which were attacks since 2020. Another source had this possibly helpful information (no date given):

"Do all interactions result in damage to the boat?
No, only 50% of the boats that are interacted with receive some kind of damage, usually to the rudder which is where the orcas concentrate most of the time. Within the boats that followed the protocol in 2021, the 53% of boats that did not have any damage to the boat was because they followed the safety protocol.


What can we do when we have an interaction?
Follow our safety protocol. This protocol has been created after collecting and analysing the testimonies of the interacted boats. When the boats stop, the animals cease their competitive interest in speed and become calmer, and although they may continue to interact for a while, usually after a while the animals themselves move away. If, on the other hand, an attempt is made to escape by speeding up the boat, on the one hand the animals are fully capable of following the speeds of most of the boats they are used to interacting with, it can even be dangerous to try to keep the boat on course, as when hitting the rudder underwater, the rudder wheel can suddenly turn uncontrollably, and it has been shown that the animals tend to hit the rudder harder, as they feel more pressure on it, and the damage to the boats tends to be greater. Orcas can be stimulated by human actions to interact with the boat, so please try to stay out of their sight and do not shout, try to hit, touch or throw things at them.

See https://www.orcaiberica.org/faq

I propose we tone down the thread and try not to attack each other, as we are all sailors or mariners, and nobody wants to harm orcas or be harmed by them.

This is the proposed safety protocol , forgive me it sounds like advice if you break down on the side of the motorway ! Clearly it’s not from someone who sails

[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by Sailing55

I am not attacking anyone, simply pointing out that there exists a group of people who seem to believe that they reign supreme over all other forms of life wherever they choose to go. That is my opinion and I have expressed it after reading some of the comnents here.
If my opinions are so distasteful to you please ignore them...

They are not distasteful.
But, There are groups of these people everywhere.
And, both sides are represented here.
I believe we All know who they tend to be in CF.

Boatyarddog

[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by LakeSuperior

It was just a suggestion with some historical basis to try solve a problem. It is already established that they can be lethal to a yacht. What is your deep solution mister philosopher?

First I'd address your invitation to answer my comment as uninviting!
More of a challenge.

Many things seldom encountered, can sink a yacht.
Your much more likely to be holed by a partially submerged container!
A Orca isn't encountered often.

The incidences of damaging the boat, rare.
Sail on and deal as things arise.
If your so worried about a rare chance encounter, don't sail that area.
And, or change your route as you think it may help.
And if that doesn't work.

Stick that prod, down there and please report your findings back to us.
Best to NOT F*** with pissed off Whales though

It's been shown to be Lethal, to humans, and Boats in Past encounters with Many types of these Very Smart and Powerful Mammals.

Common sense, no philosophy involved.
Boatyarddog

[Sailing55]

Originally Posted by Boatyarddog

They are not distasteful.
But, There are groups of these people everywhere.
And, both sides are represented here.
I believe we All know who they tend to be in CF.

Boatyarddog

You are right of course, but, for the life of me, cannot understand some of the logic concerning electric fences etc. I have spent a good part of my life trying to eliminate stray current/electrolosis/galvanic corrosion without having to fear a nearby boat pumping electric current into the water to deter "attack" by Orca. And you know as well as I do "Orca Protection" could conceivably be a new fad! Those poor Orcas...

[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by Sailing55

You are right of course, but, for the life of me, cannot understand some of the logic concerning electric fences etc. I have spent a good part of my life trying to eliminate stray current/electrolosis/galvanic corrosion without having to fear a nearby boat pumping electric current into the water to deter "attack" by Orca. And you know as well as I do "Orca Protection" could conceivably be a new fad! Those poor Orcas...

I agree, there's no logic in maintaining a "wave field of current" around the boat.

Cattle prods, fencing, work on land.
I'd like to see the proof in A sea state, of ANY efficiency of this idea.

Doubt it would even work!
Boatyarddog