Orcas appear to have sunk a sailboat- what now?

[Manateeman]

The US Navy has a degaussing facility for subs. There are people who know which marine mammals respond to these fields and which do not. They have dolphins trained to stop terrorist divers.
Dolphins and Orcas have some very different behaviors. If an Orca wants to harm you, I doubt you will be able to deter it with any electrical force at hand on a boat. I know a lot about acoustics and manatees. They seem to enjoy science experiments where they get a reward. Marine mammal researchers return them to the wild as soon as they are strong enough but in the manatee hospital, they are gentle, and are very interested in new items so the acoustic experiments are pretty easy for both man and manatee.
Orcas are a completely different story.
I’ve talked to several women who once worked with them. Orcas are very intelligent. We don’t know at which frequencies or at which amplitude, Orcas will react but the reaction will not be like manatees who paddle away quickly.
I don’t know anyone in marine mammal science who would be stupid enough to try to see what acoustic or electrical device would scare an Orca away from a small vessel. The very idea of doing this kind of experiment would be met with a chorus of objections from researchers and law enforcement officials. You would never get permits to do this.
I doubt we will ever be able to understand how Orcas think....or Why they interact with sailboats. Orcas are like icebergs. If you want to sail where they exist, then the burden is on you to take that risk or not. To invest in a vessel suitable for an engagement or not. No one is putting a gun at your head and telling you that you must do it.
An Orca purposely drowned a woman trainer. The orca had exhibited only a few minor behaviors which seemed aggressive before that final event. Maybe it was just tired of doing tricks for food. Maybe it wanted freedom or it was boredom.
There was no doubt the Orca held her down until she died. Just think about that.
The same species that will not harm a someone in a kayak.
The easiest way to avoid a confrontation is to not get close enough to begin one.
We designed a vessel with bank glass windows because we’ve seen just how strong ice bears are. No doubt someday some body in a production boat will think they will see the ice bear in enough time to get away and then find out ice bears are incredible difficult to spot, can move very quickly and have no problem peeling you boat apart and eating you.
You think the stun gun will save you or quoting scripture will remind it that you’re the boss and top of the food chain?
Something created Ice Bears, Orcas, Sperm Whales. I won’t harm any of them and that is because as Captain, it’s my duty to avoid placing my crew in harms way. Live and let live.
Captain Mark

[LakeSuperior]

Originally Posted by Manateeman

The US Navy has a degaussing facility for subs. There are people who know which marine mammals respond to these fields and which do not. They have dolphins trained to stop terrorist divers.
Dolphins and Orcas have some very different behaviors. If an Orca wants to harm you, I doubt you will be able to deter it with any electrical force at hand on a boat. I know a lot about acoustics and manatees. They seem to enjoy science experiments where they get a reward. Marine mammal researchers return them to the wild as soon as they are strong enough but in the manatee hospital, they are gentle, and are very interested in new items so the acoustic experiments are pretty easy for both man and manatee.
Orcas are a completely different story.
I’ve talked to several women who once worked with them. Orcas are very intelligent. We don’t know at which frequencies or at which amplitude, Orcas will react but the reaction will not be like manatees who paddle away quickly.
I don’t know anyone in marine mammal science who would be stupid enough to try to see what acoustic or electrical device would scare an Orca away from a small vessel. The very idea of doing this kind of experiment would be met with a chorus of objections from researchers and law enforcement officials. You would never get permits to do this.
I doubt we will ever be able to understand how Orcas think....or Why they interact with sailboats. Orcas are like icebergs. If you want to sail where they exist, then the burden is on you to take that risk or not. To invest in a vessel suitable for an engagement or not. No one is putting a gun at your head and telling you that you must do it.
An Orca purposely drowned a woman trainer. The orca had exhibited only a few minor behaviors which seemed aggressive before that final event. Maybe it was just tired of doing tricks for food. Maybe it wanted freedom or it was boredom.
There was no doubt the Orca held her down until she died. Just think about that.
The same species that will not harm a someone in a kayak.
The easiest way to avoid a confrontation is to not get close enough to begin one.
We designed a vessel with bank glass windows because we’ve seen just how strong ice bears are. No doubt someday some body in a production boat will think they will see the ice bear in enough time to get away and then find out ice bears are incredible difficult to spot, can move very quickly and have no problem peeling you boat apart and eating you.
You think the stun gun will save you or quoting scripture will remind it that you’re the boss and top of the food chain?
Something created Ice Bears, Orcas, Sperm Whales. I won’t harm any of them and that is because as Captain, it’s my duty to avoid placing my crew in harms way. Live and let live.
Captain Mark

There is so much wrong with this post that I don't have the patience to even start to address the issues.

Still waiting for your suggestion to mitigate the 200 plus Orca on yacht attacks in the last two years.

[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by LakeSuperior

There is so much wrong with this post that I don't have the patience to even start to address the issues.

Still waiting for your suggestion to mitigate the 200 plus Orca on yacht attacks in the last two years.

Lol
Attacks?
Whats the criteria?
And the outcome?
One could make a reasonable GUESS is all with that info.

Best solution is avoidance.
I've seen them kick seals like a football, 50 ft in the air.
It's mostly avoidable contact.
However,
I'm waiting to hear your story about the time you Cattle Prodded one, and GOT "attacked"
That's interesting reading... However it turns out.
Boatyarddog

[JPA Cate]

For me, the problems with a bang-stick (as for sharks) for defense from orcas is that we don't know how they'd react, and they could easily interpret it as an attack. A creature weighing about 200 lbs, give or take 100 lbs, isn't much compared to an orca. The orca drowned the woman "trainer"; interesting that it didn't eat her. Suggests it was the orca equivalent of annoyed, not hungry.

For people who live nearby and for people who want to transit the waters, going backwards seems to work.

Imho we've really failed with our dominion over the creatures job; we've contributed to many species' extinction, we've not done good husbandry of the resources.

Ann

[NPCampbell]

Originally Posted by double u

...hilarious to me, that so many contributors here, living in a country they got by exterminating the original owners of the land, now argue that "the boats entering the Orcas' living space" of course may not take protective measures that harm the animals as they are visitors

Name a single country in which the "original owners" haven't been exterminated, displaced or subjugated at any point in history.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by NPCampbell

Name a single country in which the "original owners" haven't been exterminated, displaced or subjugated at any point in history.

Iceland..

[Time Theory]

[QUOTE=Diosadelsol;3666155]I'm going there, sorry (not sorry). The Bible says differently.

Genesis 1:26-28 (KJV)

26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Please do not take offense Diosadelsol but a Whale / Orca is not a Fish. It is a Mammal.

[Sailing55]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

For me, the problems with a bang-stick (as for sharks) for defense from orcas is that we don't know how they'd react, and they could easily interpret it as an attack. A creature weighing about 200 lbs, give or take 100 lbs, isn't much compared to an orca. The orca drowned the woman "trainer"; interesting that it didn't eat her. Suggests it was the orca equivalent of annoyed, not hungry.

For people who live nearby and for people who want to transit the waters, going backwards seems to work.

Imho we've really failed with our dominion over the creatures job; we've contributed to many species' extinction, we've not done good husbandry of the resources.

Ann

Hunting and fishing to feed oneself is one thing...hunting and fishing entire species to virtual extinction for monetary gain is something completely different. And it is not husbandry.
And I can't say for sure what an Orca would do if blasted with a bang stick, but it might not have the desired effect.

[Diosadelsol]

Originally Posted by Manateeman

You think the stun gun will save you or quoting scripture will remind it that you’re the boss and top of the food chain?

How unfortunate that you are unable to comprehend my post about the Scriptures. It has nothing to do with "quoting scripture" at the creatures to stop their attack, but you know that, you were just trying to take a shot at someone who, apparently, thinks different than you (as others have, from the responses I've seen). It has to do with you understanding that it's ridiculous to say the Orcas have some inalienable claim on the ocean, or any other marine life for that matter. It's absurd. I never advocated for hurting or harrassing any marine life, just so we're clear. I simply made the assertion that we, as humans, have been given the ultimate say, and if it's human or Orca, that's a no-brainer...and gave you words directly from the instruction manual. You should read it a little more.

[Sailing55]

Some of you folks can label me anything you want, but the sad fact is that, at least here in the PNW, Chinook Salmon, which makes up the largest part of the Orcas diet is being fished to virtual extinction. Commercial fishermen are up in arms for having to compete with Orca for the remaining populations. These are facts. The Orca are quite literally starving to death. They rarely have offspring, and the population is declining.
That should be good news to those of you that are up in arms because of a few incidents of whale vs boat. You may live long enough to see the Orca threat vanish.
To me that is heartbreaking...what is even more unbelievable is that so many unthinking, uneducated, self centered people are oblivious to those truths.
Rather than discuss ways of self defence against a vanishing breed of magnificent animals, why not discuss was of understanding the behavior and possibly helping them survive?
But that is too much to expect, isn't it?

David
Maid of Morven
Irrational, trouble making, bleeding heart do gooder

[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by Diosadelsol

How unfortunate that you are unable to comprehend my post about the Scriptures. It has nothing to do with "quoting scripture" at the creatures to stop their attack, but you know that, you were just trying to take a shot at someone who, apparently, thinks different than you (as others have, from the responses I've seen). It has to do with you understanding that it's ridiculous to say the Orcas have some inalienable claim on the ocean, or any other marine life for that matter. It's absurd. I never advocated for hurting or harrassing any marine life, just so we're clear. I simply made the assertion that we, as humans, have been given the ultimate say, and if it's human or Orca, that's a no-brainer...and gave you words directly from the instruction manual. You should read it a little more.

It's just a difference in Interpretation.
We all have different views.
Boatyarddog

[Manateeman]

We wrote a personal message to you in a respectful manner because it concerns your religious beliefs. You have chosen to respond in a public way. That’s very interesting. We obviously have very different views about man, the Bible, what message can be found in the life and death of Jesus. That’s ok.
We post what we know about marine mammal science. We will try to clarify our position about Orcas.
First, it is clear some can be exceedingly dangerous. Sperm whales, if attacked, will deliberately kill men in the water. Orcas in captivity have purposely drowned female trainers by holding them by the hair underwater.
Second, As a professional mariners, I have a legal obligation to not place my vessel or my crew or my passengers in harms way.
Thus...if by sailing without proper lookout or at speeds such that we cannot avoid a collision (this would include a whale sleeping or a manatee doing manatee stuff) as Captain ...such a collision would subject me to license review and possible criminal charges.
Knowingly entering an area wherein a clear and present danger exists when an alternative course is available is a failure to safely navigate even if nothing happens.
If the level of danger present could result in personal injury, in the USA, the USCG can terminate the voyage, arrest the captain, remove the passengers and take command of the vessel.
So perhaps you think...well I’m not in America. And I have insurance. You ought to read the fine print. You’ll be in for a big surprise if you file a claim.

Oh we forgot...when an injured party brings a civil action against you...could be anybody...someone who helped tow you, or someone on another vessel which tried to avoid collision with you..almost anybody...
Guess who the court will admit as expert witnesses against you. My manatee crew. They will even place their hands on the Bible.
Happy trails to you.

Captain Mark

[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by Diosadelsol

How unfortunate that you are unable to comprehend my post about the Scriptures. It has nothing to do with "quoting scripture" at the creatures to stop their attack, but you know that, you were just trying to take a shot at someone who, apparently, thinks different than you (as others have, from the responses I've seen). It has to do with you understanding that it's ridiculous to say the Orcas have some inalienable claim on the ocean, or any other marine life for that matter. It's absurd. I never advocated for hurting or harrassing any marine life, just so we're clear. I simply made the assertion that we, as humans, have been given the ultimate say, and if it's human or Orca, that's a no-brainer...and gave you words directly from the instruction manual. You should read it a little more.

With all respect..
Quoting scripture to prove your claim to mans right oversee and possession of all things is your interpretation of those scriptures, NOT Proof of ANY rights.
Instruction Manual?

Pleeeese!

What is concerning to me is how can Anyone have a peaceful existence with this kind of Berateing commentary.
Thank you for your honesty in professing YOUR personal beliefs, but I will pass on it's accuracy.
Boatyarddog

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Diosadelsol

How unfortunate that you are unable to comprehend my post about the Scriptures. It has nothing to do with "quoting scripture" at the creatures to stop their attack, but you know that, you were just trying to take a shot at someone who, apparently, thinks different than you (as others have, from the responses I've seen). It has to do with you understanding that it's ridiculous to say the Orcas have some inalienable claim on the ocean, or any other marine life for that matter. It's absurd. I never advocated for hurting or harrassing any marine life, just so we're clear. I simply made the assertion that we, as humans, have been given the ultimate say, and if it's human or Orca, that's a no-brainer...and gave you words directly from the instruction manual. You should read it a little more.

“Been Given the ultimate say” , jeepers what BS , given it by whom , Elvis , Trump , Barry Manilov. ? Don’t tell me it’s some Deity , that’s just a convenient fiction

So, we should prioritise the rights of a bunch of rich white men on their vacation !!

It goes to show how religion has debased this world and been behind so many mass slaughters

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by Diosadelsol

I'm going there, sorry (not sorry). The Bible says differently.

Genesis 1:26-28 (KJV)

26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

The definition of dominion is to have sovereignty or control.

Seems pretty self-explanatory to me.

Geeeez!...There';s always one in the wood pile!