Orcas appear to have sunk a sailboat- what now?

[Icarus]

Originally Posted by dr.j.levy

Opening up a discussion about new level of serious risk as reported in this link. The official line is that this species of Orcas are protected and if an interaction occurs, do nothing. There have been many interactions with serious damage, this is the first report of sinking.



https://www.portugalresident.com/fiv...f-sines-coast/

Maybe stay safely on dry land?

[Jim Cate]

The next thing will be a Spanish requirement for mounting a soft rubber sheath on all rudders entering those waters to avoid dental damage to Orcas.

Seriously, I don't believe that any of the attacked boats were actively associating with the pods. Rather they were on passage through an area where the Orcas were in residence and the very mobile Orcas initiated the interaction. And none of the recent reports involved "ramming".

Posters who allege that all the victims deliberately got too close to the beasts are delusional IMO.

Jim

[Franziska]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

The next thing will be a Spanish requirement for mounting a soft rubber sheath on all rudders entering those waters to avoid dental damage to Orcas.

Seriously, I don't believe that any of the attacked boats were actively associating with the pods. Rather they were on passage through an area where the Orcas were in residence and the very mobile Orcas initiated the interaction. And none of the recent reports involved "ramming".

Posters who allege that all the victims deliberately got too close to the beasts are delusional IMO.

Jim

This. Thanks Jim.

Additionally there are a lot of circumstances we're people on a boat are occupied with other duties than looking for Orcas or similar.
You tend the sails, you steer after the waves, you navigate, you cook, you do maintenance, you....

If there is anything else then benign weather it's very hard to spot Orcas at a distance, especially without training.
Let alone at night when it's impossible.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

The next thing will be a Spanish requirement for mounting a soft rubber sheath on all rudders entering those waters to avoid dental damage to Orcas.

Seriously, I don't believe that any of the attacked boats were actively associating with the pods. Rather they were on passage through an area where the Orcas were in residence and the very mobile Orcas initiated the interaction. And none of the recent reports involved "ramming".

Posters who allege that all the victims deliberately got too close to the beasts are delusional IMO.

Jim

We typically cull animals that get too prolific in an area, since the massive rise in recent years of recreational boating , perhaps the Orcas have arrived at the same conclusion. .

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by seandepagnier

Agreed completely. These animals are very rare and more intelligent than humans. They have the right to destroy our boats in their sea or do whatever they like to inferior life forms just as I have the right to destroy wasp nests or squash cockroaches. If one of them eats you: it is not a crime. It is simply nature as you are lower on the food chain.

I completely disagree. they have no right to destroy my boat, I am not attacking them in any way, I just piece fully sail or motor through the strait of Gibraltar. if I am getting attacked I defend myself and use the methods I think works best to defend my life and existence. I have my emergency rights and I would use them doesn't matter what these guidelines says. And yes my life is the same worth as a orca, doesn't matter if they are an endangered species or not. I am one of a kind too and endangered species with taking responsibility in today's I give a f... world.

Its meanwhile common sense that this two pods misbehave compare to all others of this orca species. why yes we should understand and take measures to do so. is it an illness, maybe? is a abnormal behavior which we try to understand as play, maybe BUT I am not their toy.....
this is what we do with our own kind too, criminals or sick persons are isolated or relocated too (some countries kill which I don't agree) to protect our own species and society. this is exactly the same.

it was a small pod that started with this misbehavior and by capturing them and eg relocate so they have no boats to play with or isolate them the problem would have stayed very small or even eleminated by now without endangering the species.
But no franatic save the world and animals enthusiasts with power puts their right over my right and telling the root cause is maybe overfished tuna which ends in 60% cases in Asian countries anyhow. Well I don't eat sushi at all and yes a locally catches fish as we need to eat.
Relocate these pods upfront the coast of Asia and put them in charge most likely causing the problem... well they would end up in the cooking pot in less then a month.

Next time when an endangered species breathes the same air these fanatics do put their rights over mine because I am responsible for the polluted air
Rudders and endangering my life is not a reason to kill them but to isolate or relocate, sinking a boat to kill people on it is the reason to kill a few misbehaving ones to secure their species and humans.
Problem will get much bigger and then they kill all... at the moment it's just us a small group of Sailors but if that hits commercial they will be soon killed and then all of them.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by Tupaia

There are commercially available devises, also illegal in Spain waters.


https://britishmarine.co.uk/News/202...dation-Devices

Well in all countries you have emergency rights to protect your life and are allowed to use illegal actions that justify to protect your life. and if a pinger distrubts them to bugger off this is definitely covered.
And i am sure the fine using it is less then the deductible on my insurance.

[Redreuben]

It’s a rare event no doubt but it’s another tick in the dagger boards kick up rudders column.

[Redreuben]

Well captainrivet I was doubting the postulation that Orcas were more intelligent than humans till you came along.
Might is right. Right ?
Sheesh.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Redreuben

Well captainrivet I was doubting the postulation that Orcas were more intelligent than humans till you came along.
Might is right. Right ?
Sheesh.

It is for many.. even some countries..

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by Redreuben

Well captainrivet I was doubting the postulation that Orcas were more intelligent than humans till you came along.
Might is right. Right ?
Sheesh.

nothing to do with intelligence...
We breath air, we drink water and consist of more then 90% of water. We share the water, the soil and the air to live... not just the fishing grounds...

problem started small, now it's escalating, got bigger and will get much bigger as more orcas learn this behavior and more ships will cross their way... what will happen is already clear...the thread just need to get big enough and it will as there is no way around the Straight of Gibraltar from the med.

a red/green German parliament allows the firing up of old brown coal power plants in Germany , their environmental enemy since 25 years and thought to be solved by excceting coal 10 years ago. Well Germany has an emergency energy crises.... so they give a f... about CO2...

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by wingssail

Sorry, SailingInfidels, I stand by my comment even if it wasn't quite correctly articulated. I don't mean police the whole natural world.

When one species (Orcas) start to threaten another species (Humans) it IS time to call a halt to it. How, I am not sure. What to we do if a tiger starts eating people in a village in India? Or a Bear starts attacking people in the American West? One way or another we humans will protect ourselves and our property.

Damaging a boat is bad, sinking one is worse. Expecting humans to avoid the whole Iberian Peninsula seems outrageous to me. I don't think that Orcas own that section of the ocean, maybe you do.

Protect Orcas and other marine mammals? yes. Share the ocean? yes. Turn the other cheek when they sink a boat and jeopardize the crew? I don't think so.

I said we (as ourselves reasoning beings) need to monitor the situation with Orcas and humans, and if it gets out of hand deal with it responsibly. I don't agree that have to simply concede that stretch of ocean to the Orcas. That sounds like appeasement, ("If we just let them have Portugal and Spain they won't bother us further").

bullseye
responsibility is a word that got lost during covid... wait, lie, ignore and when the **** hits the fan acussing you of something else to divert from the problem got common behavior.
We are discussing now, where nobody wanna take responsibility to act to mitigate the problem. Endangered specifies, don't do anything and it's your financial problem... that's the baseline...
But if some really powerful and rich people get personally attacked or their families involved these pods of orcas are faster suhsi then you can think.... that's today's world reality

[Franziska]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

nothing to do with intelligence...
We breath air, we drink water and consist of more then 90% of water. We share the water, the soil and the air to live... not just the fishing grounds...

problem started small, now it's escalating, got bigger and will get much bigger as more orcas learn this behavior and more ships will cross their way... what will happen is already clear...the thread just need to get big enough and it will as there is no way around the Straight of Gibraltar from the med.

a red/green German parliament allows the firing up of old brown coal power plants in Germany , their environmental enemy since 25 years and thought to be solved by excceting coal 10 years ago. Well Germany has an emergency energy crises.... so they give a f... about CO2...

I do not see the connection between the government in Germany and the Orca issue.

[Wolfgang.Schau]

I heard leaving your depth sounder on avoids your boat being mistaken by whales for another animal.

[aqfishing]

Originally Posted by nwdiver

Maybe I should sell a hydro speaker and hunting vocalizations of a 6 member transient BC pod I have, that should scare off any group of Orcas.

Secondly I wonder if anyone has tried this and if the Orcas which have been identified as adolescent bands would react to these vocalizations.

The Spanish whales won’t understand the BC whales…unless you filter it through google translate!

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

Well in all countries you have emergency rights to protect your life and are allowed to use illegal actions that justify to protect your life. and if a pinger distrubts them to bugger off this is definitely covered.

And i am sure the fine using it is less then the deductible on my insurance.

Err not so. The use of illegal actions would be subject to court scrutiny and you could carry the costs if a court decided your actions were not proportionate. This is true in many European countries especially outside your “ curtilage” which is not a boat. Your right to “ self defence “ is quite limited in many jurisdictions. Withdrawal is the preferred option. Hence a court could take account of why you insisted on being in those waters on the first place.

Hence harming the animals is not an option unless in extremis and then only in proportionate terms.