Question about 'mayday' situations.

[Golden Crab]

Hi folks. First time posting here, please let me know if I got anything wrong!
I had a question that's been niggling me for a while about mayday calls.
With a mayday being specifically for situations where crew or vessel are in 'grave and imminent danger', what about emergency situations where this may not apply. The most obvious example being if a crew member is dead, but there is otherwise nothing endangering the crew or boat (dead guys can't be 'in danger'). Or if it's SUSPECTED that there is a mayday situation (like if a large passanger ship suspects someone has fallen overboard, but isn't sure).
I would make a mayday in both those examples, and expect most people would do the same, but it would be nice to know where the official line is. If you were going by the book, should they be pan pan situations?

[Paul L]

Pan Pan

[billknny]

Most of the time, it is actually a moot question.

In your main example, someone on boat has died. You are not really asking for help from any boat in the vicinity, rather you are contacting the Coast Guard. So a "Mayday" call really isn't appropriate. But... there certainly would be no "official" repercussions from making such a call. If I want to talk with the USCG, I don't need an attention preface, I just hail "Coast Guard"

I heard this scenario play out off the California coast once when the crewman on a small commercial fishing boat had a heart attack and passed away well offshore. The USCG sent a boat out to meet the incoming vessel. The radio watch stander stayed in close contact with the Captain, and gave significant emotional and logistical support for what must have been a horrible situation.

In the event of a cruise ship passenger maybe lost, that is a tougher one. Certainly if there was enough reason to turn the ship around and start a search, as the Captain of the vessel I would want every other boat in the area to help with such a search. Calling "Mayday" certainly seems reasonable, but "Pan-Pan" would work as well. In the similar case of a possibly missing vessel the USCG prefaces their announcements with a "Pan-Pan" so there is that...

[JPA Cate]

Hello, Golden Crab,

Agree that the Pan Pan is the correct call for the situation that someone has died on board, especially if you are located close to services. The danger to life has passed.

However, say you come across a dead body in the water, you have to decide who to call, and that depends on where you are. If there is a CG presence, hail them. Other places, it might be the water police, or volunteer marine rescue, or Vessel Traffic Control. You would need to contact the authorities and find out what they want you to do, normally it would involve standing by or securing it to the boat somehow. I have hearsay of someone who used a fishing gaff for the purpose, you might want to figure out something else out of respect for the family of the deceased.

I don't know what the procedures would be on a cruise ship that realized someone was overboard, but someone was recently rescued after about 10 hrs. in the water, and survived, very lucky, imo. Possibly those procedures vary by the ship lines or there is an industry standard.

Ann

[Dockhead]

Mayday is only for immediate assistance. It is absolutely wrong to call Mayday after someone is already dead. No immediate assistance is required. Billkny is right -- it's not even a Pan Pan. Just call the CG and explain the situation. Or chuck him over the side and forget about it.



Oops, sorry, joke.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Paul L

Pan Pan

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

Hello, Golden Crab,

Agree that the Pan Pan is the correct call for the situation that someone has died on board, . .

Pan pan is for a situation of urgency -- an urgent problem affecting the safety of the vessel or crew -- which could escalate into distress.


What is urgent about having a corpse on board? What's the effect on safety of the vessel? His condition is certainly not going to worsen. I think it's routine traffic.

[StuM]

Dead crew - routine traffic.
Possible MOB - Pan Pan (upgrade to MayDay when you know).

[Shrew]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan-pan

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%A9curit%C3%A9

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mayday

Radioing pan-pan informs potential rescuers (including emergency services and other craft in the area) that an urgent problem exists, whereas mayday calls on them to drop all other activities and immediately begin a rescue.

[Shrew]

I would not expect to be calling a Mayday for a DoA.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Golden Crab

Hi folks. First time posting here, please let me know if I got anything wrong!
I had a question that's been niggling me for a while about mayday calls.
With a mayday being specifically for situations where crew or vessel are in 'grave and imminent danger', what about emergency situations where this may not apply. The most obvious example being if a crew member is dead, but there is otherwise nothing endangering the crew or boat (dead guys can't be 'in danger'). Or if it's SUSPECTED that there is a mayday situation (like if a large passanger ship suspects someone has fallen overboard, but isn't sure).
I would make a mayday in both those examples, and expect most people would do the same, but it would be nice to know where the official line is. If you were going by the book, should they be pan pan situations?

Welcome aboard Golden Crab, interesting first post!

IMO, an emergency situation is one that creates a grave and imminent danger. A lesser situation than suggests some urgency becomes a Pan Pan.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Shrew

I would not expect to be calling a Mayday for a DoA.

Hmm... DoA suggests possible life exists while in transit to assistance so IMO, Mayday.

Confirmed death on board maybe not so much

[nautical62]

My expectation if I signal a mayday is that I and anyone alive will happily abandon and lose the boat with all its possessions. In my view, mayday should only be used to save a life or lives. Or prevent permanent, serious bodily harm to someone injured. (Or of course if you run out of beer*).

Given communications these days, I should hope this is usually a moot point as one should hopefully be able to have an actual back and forth communication with authorities, even if that’s just pecking away on an InReach [I’m now pecking away in my cell phone for reference].

20 years ago, I obtained a spiral fracture of a finger tailing a jib sheet. My finger is still messed up, but in my mind this was nowhere near a mayday.

This is just my take, but if someone died on my boat, I would document it, I would try to reach the authorities ASAP, via two-way communications, but I would not send a mayday, EPIRB, etc. without relevant details.

I hope nobody reading this thread will ever be faced with scenario, but it’s good to think about these things before they happen.




*Just in case it’s not clear, any comments made within () should not be taken seriously. I actually read about a story where someone radioed a mayday because they were out of beer. I hope they forfeit their boat. Rescues at sea can be incredibly expensive. In my opinion they should only be called for when life and/or limb are at serious risk.

[Lepke]

In the US and probably Canada, calling the Coast Guard on the channel they monitor for non immediate issues does the job. If it's something that requires a conversation, they usually move you to another channel. It doesn't hurt to carry the CG station phone numbers along your route. You cell phone works in most coastal areas.

The sooner the CG is aware of your problem, the better. Later it may become a mayday and they could have boats or aircraft standing by or even on the way.

[roland stockham]

You quote the correct definition for a MayDay - Vessel OR PERSONS in grave an imminent danger. MOB places the casualty in imminent danger so call a MayDay immediately and the cancel if you successfully recover then. PanPan is essentially a 'standby call' and means there may shortly be a Mayday so get ready. I once called PanPan when large amounts of smoke started billowing out of the engine room on a large motorboat I was skipper. Had crew and passengers at boat stations and the port fire boat was dispatched to stand by while I opened the engine room door (and put out the fire). Ther was not an 'imminent danger' unless the fire spread so was not a MayDay but we wher in an oil terminal!!
Remember however that all emergency situations also reflect the vessels resources. What may be merely an incident to a large professionally crewd yacht could easily be a mayday for a small dayboat with novice crew. The RNLI in the UK describe a MayDay as anything that could become life threatening that the skipper and crew feel they cannot cope with. They would much rather bring you in exuhsted and seasick before you make a nav error than pick you body out of the sea after you hit the rocks!

[Capt Phil]

I have been faced with the death of a passenger aboard a Canadian fishing vessel in Canadian waters many years ago. I contacted the Canadian CG and asked them to have a detachment of the RCMP call me on the R/T.
After a bit of back and forth regarding the circumstances that caused the death, I was directed to pull in at a nearby port to await an RCMP officer and Coroner and advised to keep all crew members aboard until they had a chance to be interviewed.
The whole process took about 6 hours and was well worth it as we found out later. There were witnesses to the guy boarding my boat and if we had. Dumped the body at sea or somewhere ashore, we would still be answering questions, I’m sure.