Refugees at Sea

[GordMay]

The U.S. Military has long recognized climate change as a national security threat.

But rather than debating the causes of climate change or assigning blame, they focus on how warming undermines security, and on practical steps to slow its advance and minimize damage.

“Changing weather patterns, rising temperatures, and dramatic shifts in rainfall contribute to drought, famine, migration, and resource competition” in Africa, General Thomas D. Waldhauser, then commander of the U.S. Africa Command, told the Senate Armed Services Committee in February 2019. “As each group seeks land for its own purposes, violent conflict can ensue.”
➥ https://www.armed-services.senate.go...r_02-07-19.pdf

“Climate change is an urgent and growing threat to our national security, contributing to increased natural disasters, refugee flows, and conflicts over basic resources such as food and water,” the Department of Defense (DoD) told Congress in a 2015 memorandum. “These impacts are already occurring, and the scope, scale, and intensity of these impacts are projected to increase over time.”
➥ https://archive.defense.gov/pubs/150...ate-change.pdf

“UPDATE: Chronology of U.S. Military Statements and Actions on Climate Change and Security: Jan 2017- Oct 2019"
“Since January 2017, at least thirty-five senior officials at the U.S. Defense Department (DoD) have publicly raised concerns about, and recommended actions to address, the security implications of climate change, both due to its effect on military infrastructure, readiness and operations, and its broader geostrategic implications for the United States ...”
➥ https://climateandsecurity.org/2019/...november-2019/

[Rohan]

Originally Posted by Cyrus Safdari

Umm...not sure what you're going on about but global warming is creating refugees all over the world.

I have no doubt that climate change has a small effect on migration, but not the largest driver, not by a long shot. The reality is that the tiny change in temperature is completely overshadowed by in effect by the skyrocketing population growth of Africa and poorer countries in Asia and the Middle East, regions that can't support the population they have now, much less a doubled population a few years from now.

https://images.app.goo.gl/C5P97PwdHJ7U9di86

[Rohan]

Originally Posted by Cyrus Safdari

early 2016, women and children accounted for 55% of those reaching Greece

The ones reaching Greece are largely sneaking over from refugee camps in Turkey. That's not representative of migrants entering Europe overall.

BTW, a hell of a lot of these "children" are in fact not children at all. One Swedish study showed that about 84% of the children whose age were in doubt were in fact much older than 18.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-42234585

You can look at some photos here - there are men with wrinkles and even gray hairs claiming to be kids!

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ed-age-18.html

Not sure what's wrong with migrants becoming citizens, what are they too brown? So the concern really isn't about safety at sea then is it lol?

Good question. Why don't you ask wealthy Middle Eastern countries why they are not offering the refugees citizenship? Or taking them in at all? In fact, Saudi Arabia could easily take in hundreds of thousands of their fellow Muslims, they have massive tent cities equipped with everything people need, that are only used during the yearly pilgrimages to Mecca. Why don't they want to take them? Because they are brown?

The reality is that migrants head toward Europe and European majority countries like the US, Australia, and Canada because those countries are wealthy and extremely generous. They will even put themselves at risk by travelling a further 1000s of miles to reach them. This isn't about safety, this is about collecting benefits.

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by Group9

I hate to break it to you. But, taking a place that has been a shithole for three centuries, and trying to convince us it is now a shithole due to global warming, just isn't going to cut it in the gullibility department..

Water riots have been happening for 20 years now (from memory, see Boliva and coming soon to California since they've emptied the aquifers).

Its only going to get worse.

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by Rohan

I have no doubt that climate change has a small effect on migration, but not the largest driver, not by a long shot. The reality is that the tiny change in temperature is completely overshadowed by in effect by the skyrocketing population growth of Africa and poorer countries in Asia and the Middle East, regions that can't support the population they have now, much less a doubled population a few years from now.

https://images.app.goo.gl/C5P97PwdHJ7U9di86

Which is why we should be implementing global mandatory birth control. Perhaps something that can be deployed from crop dusters.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by flightlead404

Which is why we should be implementing global mandatory birth control. Perhaps something that can be deployed from crop dusters.

We have the vaccines... Heheheheeee...

[Tillikum]

Originally Posted by flightlead404

From a fiercely liberal person....

We are LONG past the time we should be discussing and implementing global, mandatory birth control.

Why aren't we?

Because we don't yet live in a totalitarian global state. Take heart though, measures are in hand to bring that about. Unfortunately you may be one of the eggs broken in the making of the brave new omelette. I am sorry, but no doubt you understand that it is for the good of the cause?

[GordMay]

These rescuers want to save refugees fleeing Libya by sea. But they're trapped on shore by red tape

Five of seven NGO rescue boats now in the Mediterranean are currently unable to leave port — four of which are blocked in Italy for administrative reasons.
"What we're witnessing is a situation of three different strategies," said Giorgia Linardi, the legal advisor for Sea-Watch.
"We have a renewed interest of prosecutors in investigating NGOs for facilitating illegal immigration, media attacks against NGOs and the latest — blocking NGO ships in port through administrative measures."

As the rescue boats idle in Italian ports, refugees stranded at sea are dying as they attempt to reach safe harbour. So far this year, almost 9,000 people have crossed to Italy, with almost 1,000 dying during their attempts, according to the UNHCR, the UN refugee agency.

More ➥ https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/these-...tape-1.6007111

UNHCR ➥ https://data2.unhcr.org/fr/situation.../location/5205

[Cyrus Safdari]

Whats going on in Phoenix, Arizona:
https://www.abc15.com/weather/impact...climate-change

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by silkie

Emigrants when they leave, migrants on arrival. These unfortunates didn't make it to "migrant" status, IMO.
Not that words change anything in these situations.

If words have no impact, the 3rd Reich wouldn't have had a propaganda master.

A few years back there was a very much intentional (they even admitted it) choice by the media to stop using the term "illegal alien" and replace it with "undocumented immigrant".

If words don't change anything, why would they make a change from the more accurate description?

Words have a huge impact.

If you want these dangerous trips organized by dangerous criminal organizations to stop, don't reward those who break the rules. Send them home. If you are worried about refugees, follow the processes for refugees that are already set up. When breaking the rules works, they tell their friends back home and those friends break the rules. So we can lay these deaths at the NGOs and the official immigration authorities and tacitly encourage these dangerous voyages.

[Cyrus Safdari]

Rates of population growth worldwide are generally falling but that's not the problem. Environmental damage and pollution are not proportional to population size, The average First World resident consumes far more resources and produces far more pollution than the many more Third World residents.

The richest one percent of the world's population are responsible for more than twice as much carbon pollution as the 3.1 billion people who made up the poorest half of humanity...
https://www.oxfam.org/en/press-relea...-half-humanity

It wasn't poor countries who put a hole in the ozone either, though they become the refugees of climate change

[Cyrus Safdari]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

If words don't change anything, why would they make a change from the more accurate description?

es.

Because not all undocumented are illegal. Being a refugee, seeking asylum status etc, are all quite legal.

But in any case "they" haven't changed anything, both terms are used https://www.dshs.wa.gov/faq/what%E2%...ted-immigrants

And here is the reason for the debate over the phrase fwiw
https://www.nwirp.org/illegal-vs-und...s-perspective/

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by flightlead404

From a fiercely liberal person....

We are LONG past the time we should be discussing and implementing global, mandatory birth control.

Why aren't we?

There are lots of programs handing out birth control.

More importantly, you have a solution in search of a problem. 50-75yrs ago, it was a potential solution. Today birth rates are plummeting. Africa is the only continent with a birth rate over 2.1 (replacement rate). Even in Africa, the birth rates are dropping fast.

It takes a while before lower birth rates translate into population reduction because people are living longer. Europe, Japan and USA all have negative population growth rates (via births).

China just finished their 10yr census and are in panic because their population may have gone down. They also face a possible economic calamity due to their 1 child policy as the working age population ages out and the younger generation is drastically smaller.

Overpopulation is a problem but birth rates are no longer the primary driver.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

If words have no impact, the 3rd Reich wouldn't have had a propaganda master.

A few years back there was a very much intentional (they even admitted it) choice by the media to stop using the term "illegal alien" and replace it with "undocumented immigrant".

If words don't change anything, why would they make a change from the more accurate description?

Words have a huge impact.

If you want these dangerous trips organized by dangerous criminal organizations to stop, don't reward those who break the rules. Send them home. If you are worried about refugees, follow the processes for refugees that are already set up. When breaking the rules works, they tell their friends back home and those friends break the rules. So we can lay these deaths at the NGOs and the official immigration authorities and tacitly encourage these dangerous voyages.

That's the reason they dump all and any documentation that identifies them, their country of origin etc.. so the authorities can't send them back or disprove their stories/reasons for trying to enter illegally.. nor verify their claimed 'Child' status.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Cyrus Safdari

Most of the worlds refugees are hosted by Turkey, Uganda etc so not exactly at your door step.
Escaping war and other global crises is not just a preference and people don't trek across continents for fun
And yes actually you do have a right to show up and the host state's responsibility to take you in, determine your status and if qualified provide you with assistance. This is how civilized society works. This isn't a liberal vs conservative issue.
And not so long ago it was Westerners who were the refugees.
https://www.printmag.com/post/polish-refugees-in-iran

Vast majority are economic driven. Of course, this may be inadvertently driving the destruction in their home country. It's a lot like cities in the USA where first the wealthy departed and then the middle class...eventually what was left was a burnt out husk of unemployable and criminal elements.

Turkey and Uganda may have a fair number but from having spent significant time in Italy over the last 30yrs, it's amazing how few Italians you see anymore. Of course, I'm sure many are "undocumented immigrants" flying under the radar and don't show up in the official numbers.