Yacht hits something and sinks 50 miles west of Niue

[Paul L]

We saw a lot of whales while in Niue. Here's one showing off.

[knotstogo]

When I first posted the quoted news story, I was confused by the location of the water ingress. The article stated that the water was coming in from under the dining table, which made me think of a common interior layout, with the table amidships. Yet the article also mentioned that the table covered the helm, which I assumed was the rudder.

Originally Posted by fxykty

Sounds like their rudder was torn away and that was the hole that flooded them. Could be a whale. Humpbacks are most common in those waters. Or it could have been a materials failure. They don’t describe a collision. Who knows?

The video posted by Budawang makes it clear that the rudder was damaged and that's where the water came in fast. I saw another picture on their Facebook page that makes it more clear. The dining table is actually in the stern of the boat, directly over the rudder.

[fxykty]

Interesting layout but probably not the primary reason for the flooding unless the accommodation space meant there could not be a full bulkhead between the rudder and the rest of the boat.

Many boats do not have a separate watertight compartments in the stern for the rudder post, nor for engines and shafts. That’s unfortunate. Same for up forward; often the chain locker or void space at the bow is not actually watertight due to doors.

Something to consider when looking at cruising boats, as minor collisions are not uncommon and can turn fatal if there’s uncontrollable flooding.

Absolutely heart wrenching for the couple.

[skydiver]

Originally Posted by fxykty

Sounds like their rudder was torn away and that was the hole that flooded them. Could be a whale. Humpbacks are most common in those waters. Or it could have been a materials failure. They don’t describe a collision. Who knows?

I would place a modest wager that you just nailed it.

[BugzyCan]

Would it make sense to don a wetsuit with a lifeline and attempt to plug the hole from the outside? I do not know what materials would be suitable for such an attempt, but even something like a bed comforter might be enough to plug most irregular holes if not too large. Perhaps enough that the pumps could keep most of the water out. Perhaps something for a younger couple.

Tragic to let a boat like that vanish into the sea.

Glad they were rescued though, could have been a lot worse.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by BugzyCan

Would it make sense to don a wetsuit with a lifeline and attempt to plug the hole from the outside?

Night time and stormy seas, no sorry not even for an experienced diver.

Pete

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by BugzyCan

Would it make sense to don a wetsuit with a lifeline and attempt to plug the hole from the outside? I do not know what materials would be suitable for such an attempt, but even something like a bed comforter might be enough to plug most irregular holes if not too large. Perhaps enough that the pumps could keep most of the water out. Perhaps something for a younger couple.

Tragic to let a boat like that vanish into the sea.

Glad they were rescued though, could have been a lot worse.

Depends on the sea conditions. From the description it was relatively rough. Most monos pivot quite a ways forward of the stern, which means the stern is going up and down by several metres. That’s a death trap for a swimmer (this is also why it’s recommended to bring up MOBs midships and not at the stern if there are waves). Monos with really wide sterns are a bit better, as are most catamarans, but this was a more traditionally designed steel hull.

They said it took about an hour from when they first noticed the water until it was well above the floorboards and they realised their boat was going to sink. That’s not a lot of time to figure out a way to externally block the hole, especially if they weren’t sure where it was.

Military and first responders define and practice all sorts of scenarios, over and over, so that when a situation happens they are reasonably prepared. Cruisers generally do not. More and more offshore racing organisations require courses and proof of training, but this still is very perfunctory for cruisers. As an example, Category 1 certification in NZ requires some courses, but doesn’t require demonstrations of use of storm sails, storm systems such as parachutes or drogues, or controlling fire or massive flooding to pick just a few scenarios.

This event is a good reminder to all of us that our emergency preparation should be a lot more than just buying the gear and writing standard operating procedures. We actually need to practice. How else do you figure out how to (possibly) plug a large hole that you can’t get to from inside?

[hpeer]

Stell boats are susceptible to rust in very localized spots. That’s why I think ultrasound surveys are next to meaningless. To find the rust you need to know where rust likes to hide and then go looking for it. Like an Easter Egg Hunt.

Anchor lockers is a great place for rust as is a lazzarette. Anywhere where it is set, perhaps from deck penetrations like stern railing. The water from eve a small leak will over the decades create a small but serious rust spot. Especially where ribs and stringers meet if they do not drain naturally.

If the area around the rudder tube is compromised then it could rip off. OR if there are weak spots forward in the anchor locker or worse just below waterline under the forward bunks, places hard to inspect, then you can easily punch a bad enough hole.

Just recently I read of a newish big (198’?) STEEL yacht hitting some unspecified under water object and being lost in Indonesia. That was more troubling because it was a newish boat and being bigger one would assume some significant metal thickness.

Very odd coincidence.

[skydiver]

Perhaps someone with more experience than me can explain why cruising boats aren't designed so that all through-hull fittings, seacocks and the rudder stock entry (which all seem to be common leak points) are placed within floodable, sealed compartments with above-waterline access?

[hpeer]

^ $$$$&

It’s worse, you hear reports of boats with through hulls so difficult to reach Pelle resort to extension handles.

And the sheer quantity of through bulls on some boats astounds me. I see boats with 14 to 17 holes. Sometimes six or so in a neat row. I think of a perforated cardboard that says “rip here.”

Our big boat has 8 through hulls (including the speed transducer, 9 including the depth transducer) and it’s too many but there is no reasonable way to reduce them. Our small boat has 4 or 5 by the same counting method.

[boom23]

Originally Posted by skydiver

Perhaps someone with more experience than me can explain why cruising boats aren't designed so that all through-hull fittings, seacocks and the rudder stock entry (which all seem to be common leak points) are placed within floodable, sealed compartments with above-waterline access?

My Amel 50 is designed with rudder post box above the waterline and with watertight compartments. The lazarette, where the rudders are, is one of the 6 watertight compartments on my boat. I believe every boat should be built this way.

I really feel for the skipper and his family. It must have been a horrible experience. I'm glad they got out safely.

[hpeer]

The more I hear about Amels the more I like them.

[fxykty]

Our cat has watertight bulkheads between rudder and engine room and engine room and accommodations at the stern. However there is a cable run between the two engine compartments, so one will flood into the other but the water would have to be 1.75 m deep, about 1.2m above the waterline.

At the bow we have a sealed crash compartment for the first 1.5m, then another watertight bulkhead 3m back on one side (sail locker) in front of the accomodation space. On the other side it is a big locker space that has a door into the accommodation space. We’re going to upgrade the door opening and door so that it will be watertight at that bulkhead.

Watertight bulkheads at bow and stern are the minimum to isolate the most likely catastrophic flooding points. Next step that mostly custom boats do is to have a single standpipe for water intake and eliminate individual through hulls completely. Perhaps attention to mitigating catastrophic flooding is one of the distinguishing features of blue water boats?