Hong Kong: Sailing license in Hong Kong

[DITB]

Hong Kong is very restrictive in many regards. Just like not allowing third party maritime chart vendors, they also don't allow any foreign or international licenses.

If you have a boat in Hong Kong, it has to be on Hong Kong register. To command such a boat, you need a local license - called a "Pleasure Vessel Operating License" - often abbreviated PVOL. If you don't, it's not only about getting a fine and/or going to jail - but also lack of insurance (it could get very ugly - and you might get most of the fault if you don't have a license). Just like you can't use a foreign drivers license in HK - it's a police state with endless licensing, permits and such - even when those tests are pointless to the extent it is just a box ticking exercise (just check the general driving skills on HK roads - and boats in HK waters!)

For "pleasure vessels" (aka Class IV), there are two licenses:

Grade 2 - entry level license. Valid for any class IV vessel, up to 15 m (49.2') LOA. No restrictions on displacement, top speed, horsepower ... so you can use this license for a jet ski, despite top speeds above 60 knots on some of these. Many pleasure vessels are in 50-60 foot range, but you can't use the grade 2 license here - regardless how slow or underpowered it is.

Grade 1 - valid for any and every HK registered vessel, regardless of size, horse power, length, beam, speed ... as long as it is a Class IV vessel ("pleasure vessel"). This could be a 200' luxury yacht, but not a dredger, fishing vessel, bulk carrier etc.


To get a grade 2 license, you need a vision test (see link below, signed by approved HK optometrist or eye doctor), a passport size photo and 1,255 HKD. Go to the marine department in person and sign up. Bring Hong Kong ID. Check the "exam rules" link below for a complete list of requirements.

The exam is multiple choice. 2 x 40 questions, multiple choice on a computer. No need to show any calculations or reasoning - just point and click. For both parts (A and B), you need at least 28 correct answers (70% pass or better). You can fail one and pass the other - and come back for the one you failed only. There is no practical or oral at all: If you can answer these questions to 70% or better - that's it. There is not really much time pressure - either you know it, or you don't. When you get to grade 1, then ... the time is everything.

If you are fast you can do the whole thing (grade 2) in 3 months - including studying and waiting for the exam.

For both grade 1 and 2 exams: Every time you sign up, or reschedule after a failed attempt, it costs you 1,255 HKD. Every time you sign up (or are assigned the oral, after passing the written), you can only change the exam date one time. To change it again, you will have to fail it first (and not showing up = failing).

Schedules are listed online:

Grade 2: https://www.mardep.gov.hk/en/pub_services/npvo2.html

Grade 1 written: https://www.mardep.gov.hk/en/pub_services/npvo1.html

Grade 1 oral: https://www.mardep.gov.hk/en/pub_services/npvoral.html

Right now as I am writing this (March 5th 2018), the last Grade 1 written was just taken (6 months out). This is the MarDep method of restricting pleasure vessels in HK: 1) Make it very difficult to pass and 2) ensure the tests are far apart and never enough. For the written, typically 6-12 months.




To get a grade 1 license is a magnitude more complicated and longwinded. First of all, you must have had a grade 2 license for at least a year - before you can even BOOK a test. Even if the waiting time for the first grade 1 test (the written) is 6-12 months, you cannot even book it the day before you had your "probation" of 12 months over. And you must have "sailed a HK registered vessel as captain". That is, less than 15 meters, because otherwise you sailed illegally on your grade 2 license. Bring your owner and operator certificate of your <15m LOA boat - or if you don't own a boat <15m LOA, have that friend with such a boat, write a letter to state that you that you sailed it AS CAPTAIN for him (include a copy of the owners certificate for that vessel). No hour/miles requirements, just another mindless Hong Kong box ticking exercise.

Suggestion: Don't hesitate. Ready or not, just go and book your test as soon as those 12 months are over. Getting a grade 1 license is a waiting game and will most often take you SEVERAL YEARS to finish. Start the clock as soon as you can. Suddenly you have a 15+ meter boat to sail, and then it's a bit late to start.

There are two tests for Grade 1.

1) Navigation written test. You have 1:50 hours for 5 assignments. Each are weighted 20%. One of them is answer 5 questions about "HK Chart 1" (see links). You need to know all the symbols by heart (this is HK ...). If you know those, that's an easy 20%. Another 20% is a question involving tides: Look up tide tables (easy), and answer a few definitions (as found in the front of the Hydro Office yearly tide book. Which can't be downloaded, and which often is sold out). The remaining 3 exercises are the killers. Navigation exercises where you are supplied with a full size chart. Plot some fixes, apply leeway, variation, deviation, current or whatever is in the exercise. There is a deviation table for each applicant, which is graduated in HALF DEGREES precision. And they expect you to interpolate between those (you can't make this s... up). And you have to document all you do (on the paper provided, NOT on the chart).

Believe me, you will be stressed for time. It took me two attempts for the written, and both times I was still writing when time was up. You make the tiniest mistake (or they can't follow your calculations), and they mark you down heavily. They claimed I didn't apply deviation correctly in my first attempt (which I know I did, but can't prove since I don't have the paper and not allowed to copy or photo it). Anyway, fail this one, and you wait another 6-12 months for the next test.

2) After you pass the written, you will be assigned an oral test date a month or two later. If you thought the written test was under time pressure - this one is even worse. You have to memorise almost everything, down to the smallest detail. All morse codes, all single signal flags, and a quite a few grouped ones (see the links to the Coxswain document below, for which flags). On my first test, they even asked me the flags related to trawling. This license is only valid in HK waters - and trawling in HK waters has been forbidden since 2013. And yet they still keep asking about it. The combination "I request radio pratique" - no-one knows what it means (I looked it up so I know), but as long as you can say that, it's fine. Various drills for fires, collision, sinking, spotting vessel in distress ... all need to be of a certain format. And most important - know the COLREGS inside out. They will literally sit and count on their fingers when they ask "What do you need to consider for 'safe speed'. If you can't mention all 2 x 6 items, you will get marked down.

And for the oral, you have 45 minutes. At the end of the oral they will say "Sorry, time is up - and you failed. Because we didn't cover everything. Come back again next time". If you really know your stuff and they feel happy about you, they might let you go (mate of mine got through in first pass, despite skipping some areas). So it took me three attempts at the oral, before I finally got through.

Without any practical test whatsoever, without being able to even tie your shoes - you can now command any size class IV HK registered vessel, in HK waters. It's all about memorising. No wonder there are so many accidents in HK. And for every accident, they just increase the amount you need to memorise.


Finally: If money is not an issue, you can ask one of the few "schools" for help. They will charge you roughly 1000 USD for a grade 2 "course", and 4000 USD (!!!) for a grade 1 course (written and oral). They are not really schools - but just offices that collect "feedback" from previous exam goers (debriefing them), then making a secret collection of "correct answers". When you go there, you will have access to that information, but can't take it home to study. Only in their cramped and poorly ventilated cubicles - is where you sit and borrow their books. Large signs on the wall threaten with lawyers and lawsuits if you even try to copy anything. Only in Hong Kong ...

You can do it without those "schools", but it will take some more effort from your side.


Supporting documents:

Exam rules https://www.mardep.gov.hk/en/pub_ser...rules_ploc.pdf

Eye test form: https://www.mardep.gov.hk/en/forms/pdf/mo935.pdf

Guide for Grade 2 (Chinese only): https://www.mardep.gov.hk/hk/pub_ser...pvoc_guide.pdf

HK Chart 1 guide https://www.hydro.gov.hk/eng/publication.php

Coxswain guide - a bit helpful towards the Grade 1 oral (Chinese only): https://www.mardep.gov.hk/hk/pub_ser...ade3_guide.pdf

[DITB]

OK, so I cannot edit my post after 30 minutes. Here is a slightly updated version:

Hong Kong is very restrictive in many regards. Just like not allowing third party maritime chart vendors, they also don't allow any foreign or international licenses.

If you have a boat in Hong Kong, it has to be on Hong Kong register. To command such a boat, you need a local license - called a "Pleasure Vessel Operating License" - often abbreviated PVOL. If you don't, it's not only about getting a fine and/or going to jail - but also lack of insurance (it could get very ugly - and you might get most of the fault if you don't have a license). Just like you can't use a foreign drivers license in HK - it's a police state with endless licensing, permits and such - even when those tests are pointless to the extent it is just a box ticking exercise (just check the general driving skills on HK roads - and boats in HK waters!)

For "pleasure vessels" (aka Class IV), there are two licenses:

Grade 2 - entry level license. Valid for any class IV vessel, up to 15 m (49.2') LOA. No restrictions on displacement, top speed, horsepower ... so you can use this license for a jet ski, despite top speeds above 60 knots on some of these. Many pleasure vessels are in 50-60 foot range, but you can't use the grade 2 license here - regardless how slow or underpowered it is.

Grade 1 - valid for any and every HK registered vessel, regardless of size, horse power, length, beam, speed ... as long as it is a Class IV vessel ("pleasure vessel"). This could be a 200' luxury yacht, but not a dredger, fishing vessel, bulk carrier etc.


To get a grade 2 license, you need a vision test (see link below, signed by approved HK optometrist or eye doctor), a passport size photo and 1,255 HKD. Go to the marine department in person and sign up. Bring Hong Kong ID. Check the "exam rules" link below for a complete list of requirements.

The exam is multiple choice. 2 x 40 questions, multiple choice on a computer. No need to show any calculations or reasoning - just point and click. For both parts (A and B), you need at least 28 correct answers (70% pass or better). You can fail one and pass the other - and come back for the one you failed only. There is no practical or oral at all: If you can answer these questions to 70% or better - that's it. There is not really much time pressure - either you know it, or you don't. When you get to grade 1, then ... the time is everything.

If you are fast you can do the whole thing (grade 2) in 3 months - including studying and waiting for the exam.

For both grade 1 and 2 exams: Every time you sign up, or reschedule after a failed attempt, it costs you 1,255 HKD. Every time you sign up (or are assigned the oral, after passing the written), you can only change the exam date one time. To change it again, you will have to fail it first (and not showing up = failing).

Schedules are listed online:

Grade 2: https://www.mardep.gov.hk/en/pub_services/npvo2.html

Grade 1 written: https://www.mardep.gov.hk/en/pub_services/npvo1.html

Grade 1 oral: https://www.mardep.gov.hk/en/pub_services/npvoral.html

Right now as I am writing this (March 5th 2018), the last Grade 1 written was just taken (6 months out). This is the MarDep method of restricting pleasure vessels in HK: 1) Make it very difficult to pass and 2) ensure the tests are far apart and never enough. For the written, typically 6-12 months.




To get a grade 1 license is a magnitude more complicated and longwinded. First of all, you must have had a grade 2 license for at least a year - before you can even BOOK a test. Even if the waiting time for the first grade 1 test (the written) is 6-12 months, you cannot even book it the day before you had your "probation" of 12 months over. And you must have "sailed a HK registered vessel as captain". That is, less than 15 meters, because otherwise you sailed illegally on your grade 2 license. Bring your owner and operator certificate of your <15m LOA boat - or if you don't own a boat <15m LOA, have that friend with such a boat, write a letter to state that you that you sailed it AS CAPTAIN for him (include a copy of the owners certificate for that vessel). No hour/miles requirements, just another mindless Hong Kong box ticking exercise.

Suggestion: Don't hesitate. Ready or not, just go and book your test as soon as those 12 months are over. Getting a grade 1 license is a waiting game and will most often take you SEVERAL YEARS to finish. Start the clock as soon as you can. Suddenly you have a 15+ meter boat to sail, and then it's a bit late to start.

There are two tests for Grade 1.

1) Navigation written test. You have 1:50 hours for 5 assignments. Each are weighted 20%. One of them is answer 5 questions about "HK Chart 1" (see links). You need to know all the symbols by heart (this is HK ...). If you know those, that's an easy 20%. Another 20% is a question involving tides: Look up tide tables (easy), and answer a few definitions (as found in the front of the Hydro Office yearly tide book. Which can't be downloaded, and which often is sold out). The remaining 3 exercises are the killers. Navigation exercises where you are supplied with a full size chart. Plot some fixes, apply leeway, variation, deviation, current or whatever is in the exercise. There is a deviation table for each applicant, which is graduated in HALF DEGREES precision. And they expect you to interpolate between those (you can't make this s... up). And you have to document all you do (on the paper provided, NOT on the chart).

Believe me, you will be stressed for time. It took me two attempts for the written, and both times I was still writing when time was up. You make the tiniest mistake (or they can't follow your calculations), and they mark you down heavily. They claimed I didn't apply deviation correctly in my first attempt (which I know I did, but can't prove since I don't have the paper and not allowed to copy or photo it). Anyway, fail this one, and you wait another 6-12 months for the next test.

2) After you pass the written, you will be assigned an oral test date a month or two later. If you thought the written test was under time pressure - this one is even worse. You have to memorise almost everything, down to the smallest detail. All morse codes, all single signal flags, and a quite a few grouped ones (see the links to the Coxswain document below, for which flags). On my first test, they even asked me the flags related to trawling. This license is only valid in HK waters - and trawling in HK waters has been forbidden since 2013. And yet they still keep asking about it. The combination "I request radio pratique" - no-one knows what it means (I looked it up so I know), but as long as you can say that, it's fine. Various drills for fires, collision, sinking, spotting vessel in distress ... all need to be of a certain format. And most important - know the COLREGS inside out. They will literally sit and count on their fingers when they ask "What do you need to consider for 'safe speed' ?". If you can't mention all 2 x 6 items, you will get marked down. When they ask about certain towing rules, the correct word to use is "breadth". If you say beam or width, they will either pretend not to understand you, or mark you down. If you can quote all off COLREGS verbatim - you are fine. And if you mention rules by number, like "As rule 9 says, a crossing vessel less than ..." which brings me into another silly one: Many divisions are "less than", "more than", with or without equal. So if a vessel of 20 meter is crossing a traffic lane - is it then "more than" or "less than" 20? Depends what the words say. I forgot already, because it doesn't really matter. Except at your exam, because they will drill you on details like this. And there are 3 examiners at the moment - depending on which one you get, they will require some variation in answers (yes, it's a rotten system)

And for the oral, you have 45 minutes. At the end of the oral they will say "Sorry, time is up - and you failed. Because we didn't cover everything. Come back again next time". If you really know your stuff and they feel happy about you, they might let you go (mate of mine got through in first pass, despite skipping some areas). So it took me three attempts at the oral, before I finally got through.

Without any practical test whatsoever, without being able to even tie your shoes - you can now command any size class IV HK registered vessel, in HK waters. It's all about memorising. No wonder there are so many accidents in HK. And for every accident, they just increase the amount you need to memorise.


Finally: If money is not an issue, you can ask one of the few "schools" for help. They will charge you roughly 1000 USD for a grade 2 "course", and 4000 USD (!!!) for a grade 1 course (written and oral). They are not really schools - but just offices that collect "feedback" from previous exam goers (debriefing them), then making a secret collection of "correct answers". When you go there, you will have access to that information, but can't take it home to study. Only in their cramped and poorly ventilated cubicles - is where you sit and borrow their books. Large signs on the wall threaten with lawyers and lawsuits if you even try to copy anything. Only in Hong Kong ...

You can do it without those "schools", but it will take some more effort from your side.


Supporting documents:

Exam rules https://www.mardep.gov.hk/en/pub_ser...rules_ploc.pdf

Eye test form: https://www.mardep.gov.hk/en/forms/pdf/mo935.pdf

Guide for Grade 2 (Chinese only): https://www.mardep.gov.hk/hk/pub_ser...pvoc_guide.pdf

HK Chart 1 guide https://www.hydro.gov.hk/eng/publication.php

Coxswain guide - a bit helpful towards the Grade 1 oral (Chinese only): https://www.mardep.gov.hk/hk/pub_ser...ade3_guide.pdf

[gabilo]

What is the purpose of your write-up?
By the way, you can either register your pleasure vessel in Hong Kong with the ships registry or license your vessel... licensing your vessel is much quicker and cheaper.

[DITB]

Originally Posted by gabilo

What is the purpose of your write-up?
By the way, you can either register your pleasure vessel in Hong Kong with the ships registry or license your vessel... licensing your vessel is much quicker and cheaper.

The purpose should be quite clear: Assist others seeking a grade 1 or 2 license - how to do it.

If your vessel is in HK waters for more than 180 days out of 360, it must be registered locally. Some of the larger yachts are registered in Cayman Islands I believe (Says Georgetown under their ships names). Either they sail away for more time than that, or their owners are powerful enough to keep authorities quiet.

Does that answer your question?

[roverhi]

Is this a carry over from the British Administration or imposed by your mainland brethren. Had a long conversation with a Hong Kong Businessman about dealing with the government regulations there. Basically he said you either bribe the authorities or wait months or even years to get things processed. Seems to be a universal benefit of Communist governments in their new guise as Marxist Capitalists.

Was just in HongKong and saw only two sailboats from our waterfront hotel room. Saw only one small mooring field with pleasure boats. Seems like on the roads it was either taxis, commercial vehicles or McClaren's. Saw more ultra expensive auto's in 3 days in the city than I've seen my entire life and I've lived SoCal. Is that the case with sailboats and pleasure craft?? Seemed everything else on the water was commercial traffic though not container ships and other behemoths so the commercial harbor must be out of sight of HongKong/Kowloon proper. It was a busy harbor but not excessively so looking from Kowloon.

[Robert Tilbury]

after reading this i feel i have passed the PVOL ,,, Geez im never going to honkers to get my class 4 ,, HAHAHA
Great read thow ,,,

[DITB]

Originally Posted by roverhi

Is this a carry over from the British Administration or imposed by your mainland brethren. Had a long conversation with a Hong Kong Businessman about dealing with the government regulations there. Basically he said you either bribe the authorities or wait months or even years to get things processed. Seems to be a universal benefit of Communist governments in their new guise as Marxist Capitalists.

Was just in HongKong and saw only two sailboats from our waterfront hotel room. Saw only one small mooring field with pleasure boats. Seems like on the roads it was either taxis, commercial vehicles or McClaren's. Saw more ultra expensive auto's in 3 days in the city than I've seen my entire life and I've lived SoCal. Is that the case with sailboats and pleasure craft?? Seemed everything else on the water was commercial traffic though not container ships and other behemoths so the commercial harbor must be out of sight of HongKong/Kowloon proper. It was a busy harbor but not excessively so looking from Kowloon.

There used to be a lot of bribing. And old saying was that "Hong Kong has the best police force that money can buy". Mostly, this is not true any more. Maybe on triad and tycoon level, but you can't bribe a cop out of a traffic fine - you will go straight from fine to jail if you try that. Jail, which in Hong Kong is called "Correction Center". Now in Mainland China ... bribing is thriving well. Everyone is (supposedly) equal, but those with money and power are MUCH more equal than the 1.3+ billion of most everyone else. In Hong Kong, "bribing" has been moved to investments. Hong Kong is a mekka for pyramid type investments. Even down to sailing: Slips and moorings are traded like it was some kind of commodity or future. Real estate, parking lots, even school debentures - all are traded up to several times their actual value. Because tomorrow, it will be worth even more.

To some extent you can say there is mainland influence - but not directly. Yes, the British system has been "perfected" (in the views of a bureaucrat!), just like India did it. Paperwork and ticking boxes is a (hated) pasttime for every HK resident. Example: Every year, your car license needs to be (manually) renewed. This includes something as silly as ... "address proof". Which means for instance a bank statement with your address on it. Even when applying for a tax loan in the bank, the bank asks you for address proof - which could be a bank statement from the very same bank you are applying to. "Oh, but we are in the loan department, not savings and accounts department". So basically, the loan department is getting address proof from another department - of the very same bank. I wouldn't believe this if I hadn't gone through it so many times. Your boats license needs to be renewed every year as well - similar procedure. Address proof and all that.

The "mainland influence" of this pseudo-democratic "Special Admin Region" is such that getting legislation changes or new laws approved - a nightmare. There is a huge reluctancy in HK to do anything proactive. Everything is reactive: Do as you are told, follow the procedures, tick the boxes. So in most areas, you will find people looking for loopholes, rather than being innovative. Do like everyone else. Big Brother knows better than yourself. It's a complicated matter that goes way beyond the scope of a cruising forum - but just believe me, getting a sailing license in Hong Kong (especially grade 1), is really a longwinded fight.

There is so much pretending and "showing compliance on paper". Example:

There was a crash some years ago between a high speed ferry and a chartered boat from an electricity company (look up "Lamma ferry accident"). Both vessels had various equipment (but one of them didn't even have a VHF radio !!!). Regardless of instruments, they both failed at a proper lookout. Yes, it was night time but visibility was good. One (or both) even had radar, but didn't use it. A lot of people died from either the impact itself, or subsequent drowning. It was Chinese New Year, and the chartered boat had taken some employees and their relatives out to see fireworks from the seaside (a very popular yearly event)

This accident was clearly due to disregard of not just regulations (COLREGS), but mainly good seamanship. No lookout. Full speed ahead, "there wasn't anyone here a few hours ago". It is not even down to skill or experience - it is plain and blatant disregard for safety at sea. How can you proceed somewhere, and not knowing what is there? You see the same in road traffic - and even walking (especially in congested areas). I find myself the "give-way vessel" most of the time because people don't give way until the last split second. If at all. I guess it's a culture thing.

So the result of this? The MarDep had to "prove" that it was not their fault. And that they did something to improve it. Rather than just emphasising lookout, they tightened the testing further - more stuff to memorise, more people made to fail. So the MarDep can show "how hard it is to get a license in Hong Kong". This is a prime example of Hong Kong (lack of) logic.

Result is that for PLEASURE vessel licenses, it gets harder and harder to pass. Yes, you don't see many sailing vessels in Hong Kong. Because they are not welcome. They are an annoyance to the "important commercial traffic" like ferries, freight and marine works. Just like you see on the roads: There are hardly any bikes (and mopeds/small scooters are not allowed). Same principle. "Cannot" is the unofficial Hong Kong slogan. Or "Don't complain, comply".

Hong Kong is a city of great contrast. It is either on or off. Full speed or full stop. Straight to the limit. No finesse, no leeway, no sensical consideration. Even professional drivers like bus drivers go high speed up to the red light - and slam the brakes at the last moment.

"Everything in Hong Kong is black or white. Except the polluted air, which is gray"

Now ... do you see why we need a separate forum here, for Hong Kong matters?

[Zhyachts]

In the "old days" registering a new yacht or checking in a visiting yacht took about 20 minutes and a small fee at the pleasure boat office in the Harbour Building. The officials were understanding and helpful. I got the impression that they were rewarded on how well the served their clients. It was assumed visiting skippers, who sailed across an ocean to get to Hong Kong, were capable of using local knowledge and charts to sail their yachts in HK waters. Just like HK skippers do when visiting New York Harbor or the San Francisco bay area.

Under the new "mainlandification" this is clearly not the case. Arrogant officials, learning from their new big brothers, are doing their best to frustrate the process. They are clearly sucking up to their bosses and do not have the slightest interest in serving clients. Once they demanded a certificate for an engine, John Deere, that JD never heard of, they faked one up just to satisfy these clowns. Visiting skippers must get a HK license appropriate for their vessel or have a local licensed crew aboard.

I was out of Hong Kong when my 'boat driver's license" expired. Went to renew (every two years, just paper work, no test) and was told I had to submit a written report to justify being late. Now I just use the expired license which, in effect, certifies my capabilities.

Hong Kong as a port to visit when world cruising - forget it!

[DITB]

Here is another recent event - although slightly outside of HK waters:

‘Fishing boats and nets everywhere, it’s a nightmare’: why Hong Kong’s waters are so dangerous for sailing | South China Morning Post

I believe the race was supposed to be partly into HK waters - but because MarDep requested that each racing vessel had at least one crew member on board WITH A LOCAL HK LICENSE (!!!) - they moved it outside HK waters.

Professional racers in an international race - cannot go into HK because of MarDep, in their wisdom, thinks that their infinitely stupid licensing system makes boating in much HK safer?

[Dougtiff]

Very sad to hear how H.K. has changed, i purchased a Cheoylee Sail boat there back in the 70'S and had to wait for the N.E. Monsoon to sail down to Singapore, where in lived, spent several month's sailing the local water's, out too the many surrounding island's, had a wonderful time.

[MV Alchemy]

I was told that you can get an automatic grade 1 licence if you have an RYA Yachtmaster certificate. This was certainly true 3 years ago as I know a couple of people who did it but may have changed since.

[GordMay]

Off topic Q: Do you residents of HK call yourselves “ Hongkongers”, “Hong Kongese”, or something else?

[DITB]

Originally Posted by thoreed

I was told that you can get an automatic grade 1 licence if you have an RYA Yachtmaster certificate. This was certainly true 3 years ago as I know a couple of people who did it but may have changed since.

Yes you can. Well, unofficially. Maybe. And you still need to do some testing. And they now increased the stakes to the next level up (forgot the exact title of it, but something like RYA Offshore Yachtmaster. Hardly anywhere in HK waters you can sail, where you can't see land (except for the smog). Requiring an offshore RYA is just taking it too far, but this is HK MarDep ...

[DITB]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Off topic Q: Do you residents of HK call yourselves “ Hongkongers”, “Hong Kongese”, or something else?

I think Hongkongers is the most often used term. There are many expats in HK - they are mostly not reeeeeally "Hongkongers", myself included.

[Saleen411]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Off topic Q: Do you residents of HK call yourselves “ Hongkongers”, “Hong Kongese”, or something else?

My lady is Hong Kong Chinese, born and raised and I spend A LOT of time there. I've never heard her use the term "HongKonger" to describe herself or anybody else. "I'm from Hong Kong", or I'm Hong Kong Chinese" or "I'm local" On rare occasion I've heard "Honkies" used by some, but mostly in a joking manner.

I DO hear the locals say "Mainland Chinese" or "Mainlanders" a lot to describe the non Hong Kong Chinese.....currently despised by many if not most of the natives....but THAT's a whole different thread for another Forum.

Apologies for the thread drift elucidation.