Finding registered owner of boat

[fly2kite]

Originally Posted by Shrew

Brokers will RARELY have a maintenance record on file, even if the owner maintains one. Not all owners maintain a maintenance file. I certainly don't.

You have no idea what discussions the owner has had with THEIR broker. It is common to agree on a listing price and a 'bottom price'. As in "Don't bother calling me with offers for less than 'x'". This is very, very common. Neither parties want to be spinning their wheels with low-ballers and tire-kickers.

Your perception of what is occurring simply sounds misplaced and your expectations unreasonable. The fact that you are attempting to circumvent the broker AND attempt to get government agencies to divulge private information are both somewhat unethical.

to be clear - I'm not attempting to "divulge" personal information - I simply send a request to lookup the owner of an Italien registered vessel and honestly stated the reason as to why. If legally possible I would like to do it. If not, I won't do it.

If the broker had such a discussion with the owner that is great but that is still no reason to not to reply to an email. How can I improve my offer without it? A negotiation will most likely end up in 15% under asking price. With the current behavior of the broker, we will never get there. IMHO - It is a loss for both sides.

[fly2kite]

Originally Posted by Zzmeyer

My broker will not accept offers without a deposit. Sort of unprofessional he didn't at least respond.

Sure, shouldn't the offer be accepted first before I wire in the deposit? Otherwise, there will a lot of wire transfers till we agree on a price.

I thought usually it goes like:
1) first offer
2) negotiations start -> back and forth ->
3) agreed upon price + subject to "something" or "as-is"
4) wire deposit -> sea trial, haul out, survey
5) *check whats not seaworthy* -> or negotiations as-is price
6) pay the rest

[fly2kite]

Originally Posted by scargo

I had the same issue with a broker in Grenada last year. I made a written offer, using his form, and was supposed to send a deposit as soon as the offer is accepted. Never heard back from him and I was negotiating with him for months about a charter catamaran. Both by email and over the phone. Not even dare to send an email saying "sorry your offer was rejected by the owner".

Maybe it's time to start a "Rate my Broker" website. Or even better a commission-free online boats for sale transactionnal website, something like this real estate website here in Canada. https://duproprio.com/en

This whole process seems rubbish. This broker hasn't even seen the boat and is getting 10% of the cut for (not) answering emails and is (maybe knowingly) misrepresenting the boat.

[Shrew]

Originally Posted by Shrew

The fact that you are attempting to circumvent the broker AND attempt to get government agencies to divulge private information are both somewhat unethical.

Originally Posted by fly2kite

to be clear - I'm not attempting to "divulge" personal information - I simply send a request to lookup the owner of an Italien registered vessel and honestly stated the reason as to why.

Please re-read my reply. I never accused you of divulging personal information. I did accuse you of attempting to get a government agency to divulge personal information to you. It's the government. They're not obligated to reply.

As for the broker, low-ball offers and tire-kicker questions are often ignored. Simply think about it from their perspective. They are listing at least 100 or so boats. If each boat gets 5 E-mails asking questions, that is 500 hundred e-mails they have to respond too. The reality is, they know that out of those 500 responses, about 90% vaporize and are never heard from again.

After a while they start to focus on what they perceive to be legitimate buyers that will materialize into actual sales. If you start with asking for maintenance records and low-balling an offer, you're perceived as a tire-kicker. I'm not trying to be harsh, just being a realist.

[fly2kite]

Originally Posted by Shrew

Please re-read my reply. I never accused you of divulging personal information. I did accuse you of attempting to get a government agency to divulge personal information to you. It's the government. They're not obligated to reply.

As for the broker, low-ball offers and tire-kicker questions are often ignored. Simply think about it from their perspective. They are listing at least 100 or so boats. If each boat gets 5 E-mails asking questions, that is 500 hundred e-mails they have to respond too. The reality is, they know that out of those 500 responses, about 90% vaporize and are never heard from again.

After a while they start to focus on what they perceive to be legitimate buyers that will materialize into actual sales. If you start with asking for maintenance records and low-balling an offer, you're perceived as a tire-kicker. I'm not trying to be harsh, just being a realist.

You surely have a fair point - but as a (potential) first time boat buyer we make mistakes - asking for a report of maintenance is a simple question and i figured good charter companies should have that. They maintain the boats right? But okay, rookie's mistake - It is just unprofessional. And lets be real - 5 emails per boat - 10% of a 250-450k sale? that is 5k-9k for writing 1 of 5 emails per boat. I want that job

[Zzmeyer]

A broker, like any commissioned sales person, makes money only on a transaction and for better or worse, they pre qualify prospective buyers. You have obviously not come across as a potential buyer. You need to change that. If you are emailing, stop that and pick up the phone. Given you are far apart on price, it is important you get a meeting of the mind before making people do work. The broker probably knows from working with the seller that your offer is not in the ball park. Be a seller until you are the buyer. You love the boat. I'd like to make an offer. I'm willing to put a good faith deposit. If you get an agreement on price every contract provides for certain outs such as survey, sea trial, or financing. Once you have their commitment to sell, then you become the buyer - hire an independent surveyor, etc. Good luck.

[barnakiel]

Walk into the registrar, provide reason, request the data. Most boat registrars are open for review. In fact some are available online.


b.

[scargo]

Originally Posted by Shrew

Please re-read my reply. I never accused you of divulging personal information. I did accuse you of attempting to get a government agency to divulge personal information to you. It's the government. They're not obligated to reply.

As for the broker, low-ball offers and tire-kicker questions are often ignored. Simply think about it from their perspective. They are listing at least 100 or so boats. If each boat gets 5 E-mails asking questions, that is 500 hundred e-mails they have to respond too. The reality is, they know that out of those 500 responses, about 90% vaporize and are never heard from again.

After a while they start to focus on what they perceive to be legitimate buyers that will materialize into actual sales. If you start with asking for maintenance records and low-balling an offer, you're perceived as a tire-kicker. I'm not trying to be harsh, just being a realist.

If boat information is not public, how would you protect the public from fraudulent people who try to sell boats they don't own ? like what is going on these days in iNautia website ?

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by fly2kite

This whole process seems rubbish. This broker hasn't even seen the boat and is getting 10% of the cut for (not) answering emails and is (maybe knowingly) misrepresenting the boat.

Have you seen the boat?

[fly2kite]

No - travel restrictions ;(

[smac999]

33% off is not an offer. It’s an insult. I wouldn’t reply either.

[fly2kite]

Originally Posted by smac999

33% off is not an offer. It’s an insult. I wouldn’t reply either.

That is completely irrelevant. It is nothing personal. Nobody should be insulted especially professional brokers who have no "feelings" for the boat.

[Zzmeyer]

Originally Posted by fly2kite

No - travel restrictions ;(

I must ask then, how do you know the condition of the boat? Yes it was in charter.

[fly2kite]

Originally Posted by Zzmeyer

I must ask then, how do you know the condition of the boat? Yes it was in charter.

talked to the local manager/service guy via phone. (Nothing the remote sitting broker couldn't do either - instead hiding behind the so called "seaworthy-ness" of the vessel). Imho - there is moment when you loose all credibility if you are not transparent with what you know and don't know and answer questions directly.

[scargo]

Originally Posted by smac999

33% off is not an offer. It’s an insult. I wouldn’t reply either.

If you perceive things this way, the problem is yours!


A few years ago, I made an offer on a Jeanneau that was for sale in Antigua for $50K. I offered $40K. That's -20%. They came back with a counter offer for $48K. I pulled back and took the money to do something else and kept the boat I had.
A few months later, the same boat was still for sale and reduced to $38K. That's -25%.
It was probably sold for -30% or even -40% who knows ?



My marina neighbor, had a boat for sale for $35K for more than 6 years and refused offers of ~ $30K. He ended up selling her for $12K.



In General, most of the time, the first offer is probably the best ... and I experienced it when I sold my boat and my Westfalia van.