Me again Re Tenders

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by Bill O

Jammer,
Nice second pic, except you missed the obligatory bare feet in the foreground. lol

Here you go. I think someone sleeping on the foredeck qualifies.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Jammer

I have a 14' aluminum boat (with a 9.9) that I have towed as a tender in protected waters. We towed it extensively on a bareboat charter of a 45' houseboat on the Crane Lake/Namakan/Rainy Lake chain on the USA/Canada border. I have it fendered up but not as well as yours. I like what you've done around the bow and may try something similar although right now I don't have any trips planned where we'll be using this as a tender.

The stuff on the bow of ours is the Taylor Made Gunnel Guard. I would have extended it all the way around, but it was about $8 / foot at the time. Currently I'm seeing it for more like $11 / foot. So I only bought 6 feet to do the bow section and used fenders for the rest (the bolted on fenders also add extra flotation, I calculated about 10 lbs per fender, so about 80 lbs extra flotation total). I may need to get another foot of the gunnel guard or something similar to handle the aft corners though.

[Cruising Roo]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Regular occurrence to have the dinghy turn upside down if it's rough. How would your outboard handle that?

Yachts tend not to tow more than a short distance because the drag can take 1/2 knot of your speed. So yes if you are just popping round to the next bay, but beyond that no, lift it on board.

Pete

Thanks for the reply Pete. I did mention that I will have a motor boat but your reply has helped

[Cruising Roo]

Thankyou for all of your replies. I did mention I will be aboard a motor boat and not a sailing vessel. PTT means Power Trim and Tilt so sorry for not being clear. When I say the boat will be 'covered', this means the open part of the boat will have a custom made canvas (waterproof) fitted so rain or braking water can not enter the boat. It will be attached to the hull so will stay fitted. This is not uncommon at least here in Australia. I already have this “tender” and given i want to spend considerable time on the anchor; will have 2 people, 2 electric bicycles and 2 dogs, anything smaller will not suffice (I don't think). Even at that size, I can imagine needing to make a couple of trips to unload all of this. Great advice about needing to surround the tender with padding. I will be 'hopping' around Australia from sheltered water to the next sheltered water and whilst I am not ignorant enough to say that I will only be steaming in perfect weather conditions, I certainly will not be steaming in adverse weather. There will not be any travel where i do not have clear vision of the coast and in fact, I will mostly be withing a few miles from the coast. The motor (I think) will be trimmed up to limit drag although I think having a portion in the water will be useful to keep the tender steering in a straight line when in tow. Whilst I do not have the boat yet, I will be looking at full time live aboards and somewhere in the order of 45 to 55 foot. Hopefully that makes it a bit clearer and as mentioned...I am still learning about forums but clearly I still have a lot more to learn. Does the above information change anyone's thoughts on the original question particularly as mentioned in relation to fuel economy.

[Fore and Aft]

Cruising Roo I think you're mad to contemplate towing the dinghy. On a bad day the dinghy is going to end up surfing and hitting the transom of your boat repeatedly. You also mention you have a disability so what happens when the dinghy capsizes at sea and needs recovering? Or swamps and needs to be bailed? Or what about entering a marina berth or fuel dock. I have seen some almighty balls ups when a person tries to dock while towing their tender. Then what about bar crossings which we have plenty on the east coast? Wide Bay bar on a good day still throws up some confused seas which would knock the hell out of a towed tender. The sensible thing is to get some sturdy davits with an electric winch and keep the dinghy onboard. You mentioned you have done thousands of hours at sea so Murphy must have bit you once or twice?
You mentioned in a previous post that you are an accountant. I am starting to think that maybe you work for BOM with your blind faith in weather forecasts. More days than I can count have started out pleasant and ended up rougher than forecast. Not crazy rough, but rough enough that you wouldn't want to tow a tender.
Another thing not mentioned is how are you going to get the tender up the beach? You can't anchor of every beach, or if you do then you are having to keep repositioning the dinghy, so it doesn't end up high and dry. On a 55-footer you could have a little inflatable taxi boat for short runs then the big mama for all your toys.
I see you have two dogs so that rules you out for going ashore in Queensland National parks, Fraser Island etc. So, a small dinghy for you and your partner would work then.
Have you seen these boat collars?
Cheers
https://boatcollar.com.au/

[Galumay]

Originally Posted by deltaten

Check in on Sailing Nutshell. They are cruising the Kimberly using a fully kitted out tinnie as tow-behind tender
HTH

I was just thinking about them! Indeed they have cruised extensively from the East Coast to Darwin & thru the Kimberleys towing a tinny, they dont even have a bridle, just tow on a single line.

I tow a 4.75m centre console Blue Fin with a 60hp behind my 14m cat, but its on a bridle and about 30m of towline. I also put a loop of rope out behind the tinny to slow it down in following seas. It probably costs us about 1k of performance, but its invaluable in our cruising grounds for fishing and exploring.

The fact is that despite all the naysayers re towing boats, there are a lot of commercial operators that tow boats nearly every day of the year, in all conditions. Many of them towing multiple boats.

A local example here is a mate that owns a mackerel boat, he has fished the gulf, Qld coast and NT coast for decades, towing up to 5 dories behind it. He crosses the Gulf of Carpentaria every season. He has never lost a tow.

If you can stow a dinghy on davits or lift on board, there is no doubt its less stressful and you will sail/motor faster but the disadvantage is it means a compromise on size and weight.

For our purposes the advantages of towing a capable fishing boat with full electronics, electric trolling motor, 80l fuel tank, room for all the dive and fishing gear, make it worth it for us.

We also have a rigid inflatable that goes on davits, if we are just going for a day sail, or a short trip and dont want to take the big tinny.

I think the decision about the type and size of tender is very dependent on the boat its going to service and the activities you are planning on using it for, someone who is very keen on fishing and diving for example, will think about it differently to someone who just needs something to get ashore on and maybe cart a bit of fuel/water/shopping.

[Simi 60]

We have a 4.3 meter wide body alloy dory with electric and pull start 30hp on back
Chartplotter and sounder, electric bilge pump and lights
Wouldn't have anything smaller
We did start with a 3.4m v nose punt with a 15hp engine
Totally unsuitable

We can anchor out, bring the tender in to a boat ramp and have ColesWorth and liquor suppliers reverse the truck down and load us up with several months worth of groceries, beer and wine and run back out to the big boat in one trip.

We will tow it when doing day hops in good weather but tend to lift it on davits when weather is ordinary.

[Cruising Roo]

Originally Posted by Fore and Aft

Cruising Roo I think you're mad to contemplate towing the dinghy. On a bad day the dinghy is going to end up surfing and hitting the transom of your boat repeatedly. You also mention you have a disability so what happens when the dinghy capsizes at sea and needs recovering? Or swamps and needs to be bailed? Or what about entering a marina berth or fuel dock. I have seen some almighty balls ups when a person tries to dock while towing their tender. Then what about bar crossings which we have plenty on the east coast? Wide Bay bar on a good day still throws up some confused seas which would knock the hell out of a towed tender. The sensible thing is to get some sturdy davits with an electric winch and keep the dinghy onboard. You mentioned you have done thousands of hours at sea so Murphy must have bit you once or twice?
You mentioned in a previous post that you are an accountant. I am starting to think that maybe you work for BOM with your blind faith in weather forecasts. More days than I can count have started out pleasant and ended up rougher than forecast. Not crazy rough, but rough enough that you wouldn't want to tow a tender.
Another thing not mentioned is how are you going to get the tender up the beach? You can't anchor of every beach, or if you do then you are having to keep repositioning the dinghy, so it doesn't end up high and dry. On a 55-footer you could have a little inflatable taxi boat for short runs then the big mama for all your toys.
I see you have two dogs so that rules you out for going ashore in Queensland National parks, Fraser Island etc. So, a small dinghy for you and your partner would work then.
Have you seen these boat collars?
Cheers
https://boatcollar.com.au/

Thanks heaps for our reply Fore and Aft. In terms of the boat being swamped, with a custom fitted cover which I am sure you have seen, I do not have concerns about it being swamped but I take your point. Further…I have thought about the mariner issues but NOT bar crossings which I agree could turn the boat so thanks. As was previously mentioned, the slightly larger tender would also be used for fishing and scuba diving trips rather than moving the mother boat all of the time. Yes Murphy has hammered me several times. One example, when I had a 26 foot glass boat with wheel house cabin, I would tackle the Port Phillip bay rip regularly and on one occasion, I was subject to a 1 in thousands chance (according to the sea pilots) I was swallowed up by a freak whirlpool on a day as flat as a pool table resulting in the boat hitting the bottom of the ocean, breaking my foot so that my foot was pointing 180 degree in the wrong direction. I was lucky I had oxycodone pain killers with me that day. The prognosis at the time being that I probably will lose the foot but it worked out ok so very lucky. I totally accept your comment about the weather. Getting the tender on the beach is not a problem and I have done it many times when fishing out of Lorne. Yes the 2 dogs has and still does concern me and my preference is not to take them but it will be hard to convince the other half…maybe I will leave the dogs and her home!!! I have never seen let alone heard of the boat collars and wow, what a great design. Perfect for stability but I can not see how they wont slow the boat down a fair bit. Having said that, I certainly would look into them. Do you have them yourself. It seems that the davits are the way to go but how could I have this tender and a small inflatable at the same time. My injury is a very bad back which I need to start looking after it far more than I have done in the past. I would not want to be lifting motors and the inflatable if I did not have too. I would really be interested in your suggestion. Great reply and full of useful info so thank you. Darren

[Cruising Roo]

Thanks Simi 60

[Ryban]

I'll add a story to the "don't tow your tender" column. When I was still new to cruising, going between St. Lucia and St. Vincent in the leeward islands, I decided to tow my little inflatable 8-foot dinghy (with the engine off at least). During the journey, the dinghy got absolutely swamped and became a bathtub, cutting my speed down drastically (it was only a 27 foot boat).

I was single handed, had to dowse my sails, get in the dinghy offshore, and bail it out. It was not an experience I ever wanted to repeat, and always deflated and secured the dinghy for offshore trips from that moment on.

[Galumay]

Originally Posted by Ryban

... I decided to tow my little inflatable 8-foot dinghy (with the engine off at least). During the journey, the dinghy got absolutely swamped and became a bathtub, cutting my speed down drastically (it was only a 27 foot boat). ....

I think this probably illustrates that there is a point where a dinghy is actually too small to tow.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by Cruising Roo

I am still learning about forums but clearly I still have a lot more to learn.

One thing that helps on-line reading is to separate dense typing into paragraphs... with free space lines in between.

No one wants to be the grammar/spelling/typing police, but a whole bunch of words strung together on a screen display become harder to read, difficult to digest, not always easy to understand.

Especially for old bubbas with all sorts of eye issues and different lenses and so forth.

Cheers, -Chris

[Cruising Roo]

Yes and thank you Ranger. I was not sure if there are 'space' limits on this site but great advice. Cheers. Darren

[Muaddib1116]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

We have a 4.3 meter wide body alloy dory with electric and pull start 30hp on back
Chartplotter and sounder, electric bilge pump and lights
Wouldn't have anything smaller
We did start with a 3.4m v nose punt with a 15hp engine
Totally unsuitable

We can anchor out, bring the tender in to a boat ramp and have ColesWorth and liquor suppliers reverse the truck down and load us up with several months worth of groceries, beer and wine and run back out to the big boat in one trip.

We will tow it when doing day hops in good weather but tend to lift it on davits when weather is ordinary.

I think this is a good illustration of relative size. Clearly this size tender works for Simi's 60ft trawler, but I don't think anyone would say it's small. Roo is thinking of a tender not much smaller, but probably heavier with the PTT option.

Obviously it is possible for boats to tow tenders, many small motor and sail yachts tow their tenders the majority of the time in New England, and you see large Superyachts towing their 40ft center console tenders also.

It really depends on what size/type boat Roo ends up buying. He's said he's looking at 45 -55ft motor yacht, which I think could work, depending on what it is. ie. a 55ft ex trawler with substantial cleats/bits that could handle the load if the dinghy flips or swamps vs a 45ft cabin cruiser.

I could imagine a cover with frame that's well enough designed to stand up against a swamping wave, but I would be concerned about the possibility of the dinghy flipping.

Honestly, it seems to me that a boat that's large and substantial enough that I would feel comfortable towing a dinghy like that could also be arranged to have davits or a cradle to carry it when needed.

[Sailor Sailor]

I tow a hard dinghy and I have towed an inflatable. With a long enough rope, it should not hit the transom, although it did once take out my stern light in following waves. The real towing problem is heavy rain. In those conditions, I haul mine up on the foredeck with a halyard and winch.