ABYC and ISO Li reference diagram

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

I went into the chandlery and we opened the box and tested the relay.

The manual switch locks the RBS ON or OFF. In both positions the electro mechanical system can’t override the mechanical system.

Blue sea have confirmed this.

Maybe your version is different. You need to get out more Nick

You are wrong and I don’t think this is a true story. You must connect and use the control wires to confirm that a manually switched on 7700 can not be switched off by the remote control.

And it can, so your statement is not true. Also, nobody from BlueSea has said so, because why would they make untrue statements.

Also, you seem to be throwing out all kinds of statements about how qualified you are, about how you designed industrial lithium systems etc. Do you feel the need for that because it appeared you don’t even have lfp aboard your boat, you never designed and built a BMS either?

I understand there is a financial interest as well and this can explain why you attack my designs so much, as I will make them available for free.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

You are wrong and I don’t think this is a true story. You must connect and use the control wires to confirm that a manually switched on 7700 can not be switched off by the remote control.



And it can, so your statement is not true. Also, nobody from BlueSea has said so, because why would they make untrue statements.



Also, you seem to be throwing out all kinds of statements about how qualified you are, about how you designed industrial lithium systems etc. Do you feel the need for that because it appeared you don’t even have lfp aboard your boat, you never designed and built a BMS either?



I understand there is a financial interest as well and this can explain why you attack my designs so much, as I will make them available for free.

Given you weren’t beside me. I find it amusing you are telling me what I did. What is clear from the instruction manual and was clear from playing with the unit was the manual on off switch overrode the electric operation. I asked bluesea to confirm it as well.

I have more lithium designs in the commercial spaces then most people here

That informs my decisions and technical justifications

Lastly I have had designs and lithium batteries for several years and that includes systems on a boat designed to support those batteries.

I don’t attack your designs. I may disagree with certain technical decisions. That’s only right and proper.

I simply don’t agree with some of them and I argue my point soley from a technical perspective but you Nick seem to think because you suggested it it’s just be the best and others are wrong. You’re entitled to present your technical arguments. It’s up to others to decide what their perspectives are.

I presented RGleasons design because it represented a good technical compromise based on his needs. I defended it technically.

You Nick are the one attacking me not the other way around just like your obnoxious seacock arguments.

Technical arguments ate fine but you and others then descend into adhominen attacks when you find all have not bowed before your dogmatic pronouncements. It’s seems.

I am more then happy of blue seas confirm what I then subsequently asked them about the exact mechanical structure of the RBS relay to explain what they say. And if that is different I’ll happy to accept that

I have placed my technical arguments on record. My technical competence is not for discussion. No more then yours is or anyone else.

All we have are the engineering arguments everything else is irrelevant

So if I say for example 3Ah is not material , or heat build up is not material. That’s simply a position I take. Others may present alternative view points. But CF is notorious for people trying to play the “ man” and not the “ball “

Again Nick it’s not relevant to the RGleason design whether I have an LFP on board this boat. I never presented the diagram as of it were mine.

My own LFP circuitry is entirely different anyway.

As to my BMS , I have over the last 15 years designed control protection and charging circuitry for several industrial lithium projects done operating in conditions well beyond anything a yacht would experience. I have equally been consulted on several LFP boat installs and am currently involved in completely reworking one badly designed one.

By the way , I only mention my experience that because quite frankly the suggestion because I haven’t physically placed a Lithium battery in this boat I therefore should have no opinion on a relay. ( or lithium configurations )

That’s a nonsense argument. Equally I have no idea of your competencies or other people. But I have maintained purely technical arguments.

I don’t question your personal perspectives. I may argue alternative solutions , processes and concepts. That’s entirely proper. It’s for others to weigh up what’s right for them base on their own personal needs ,budgets and principles.

I’m certainly comfortable that when I finish the current LFP project and complete the negotiations with my insurance I will have a LFP Install that’s precisely tuned to my requirements , meets my reading of the ISO spec and performs as I expect it. I have no desire to prove it’s the “ best “ merely it’s represents my desires and priorities.

[goboatingnow]

Also for the purposes of clarification. I have no financial interest in my objectives technically to yours or any other design concepts or technical arguments. While I had and do have some design relationships to marine electronics companies none of that has any relevance here. I would ask you to withdraw that accusation as it’s adhominen in its nature

[goboatingnow]

Again I wish to ensure clarity

I started this thread to illustrate the work done on Diysolarforum in RGleason evolving a LFP design that met his priorities.

To suggest therefore I’m attacking others in so doing is preposterous , clearly this thread is the one being attacked.

[s/v Jedi]

Every owner of these switches will confirm that after switching to on manually, they can switch back off using the remote control.

The only way to disable remote control of a 7700/7702 is by turning it to the locked OFF position. The words “locked off” should have dropped the quarter for you.

I don’t need to be next to you in that shop, because it is obvious you never operated one of these with remote control. You simply have zero experience and your interpretation of the manual is incomprehensible

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Every owner of these switches will confirm that after switching to on manually, they can switch back off using the remote control.



The only way to disable remote control of a 7700/7702 is by turning it to the locked OFF position. The words “locked off” should have dropped the quarter for you.



I don’t need to be next to you in that shop, because it is obvious you never operated one of these with remote control. You simply have zero experience and your interpretation of the manual is incomprehensible

Well I have asked blue sea that specific question amongst others and I asked for specific clarification given an answer I got yesterday.

I also never claimed I operated it electrically

I read the instructions that the operation of the electrical control is disabled in “ locked “ mode. Ie the switch is to the right. The button is depressed to lock it on , the button is up to lock it off. The manual clearly suggests no movement electrically is possible when the switch is to the right. This seems to be borne out in the chandlery.

Either way it’s not material to the thread discussion.

I fail to see the point of this “ crusade “ of yours. I put up a design with a perfectly acceptable TE EV200 battery disconnect and RGleason added full emergency manual override which I think is an extremely good technical idea.

I have opined that personally I value full unconditional fail safe operation. If your RBS did not allow unconditional reconnection of the battery I personally could not recommend it as an emergency override which was one of the demands of the RGleason design
( and one of I would approve of )

As I said I have asked blue seas to clarify aspects of its operation.

That can then end this rather nonsensical attack of yours.

Again you are fixated on argument to prove your alternative is the “ best “ I simply don’t agree and I have put forward why. Even if the RBS works as you say , it’s not a full emergency bms contactor override.

I certainly , based on my personal experiences would always have full fail safe operation with full unconditional emergency contactor /BMS override. When the BMS fails a method must exist to unconditionally bypass the contactor and reconnect the battery to the boat. system.

It’s not material exactly how this is a achieved but that the facility exists.

Hence other then cost /performance if the objectives can be achieved by the ML RBS , as I’ve said “ fine “. As I have argued equally these objectives can be achieved by the TE EV200

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Well I have asked blue sea that specific question amongst others and I asked for specific clarification given an answer I got yesterday.

I also never claimed I operated it electrically

I read the instructions that the operation of the electrical control is disabled in “ locked “ mode. Ie the switch is to the right. The button is depressed to lock it on , the button is up to lock it off. The manual clearly suggests no movement electrically is possible when the switch is to the right. This seems to be borne out in the chandlery.

Either way it’s not material to the thread discussion.

I fail to see the point of this “ crusade “ of yours. I put up a design with a perfectly acceptable TE EV200 battery disconnect and RGleason added full emergency manual override which I think is an extremely good technical idea.

I have opined that personally I value full unconditional fail safe operation. If your RBS did not allow unconditional reconnection of the battery I personally could not recommend it as an emergency override which was one of the demands of the RGleason design
( and one of I would approve of )

As I said I have asked blue seas to clarify aspects of its operation.

That can then end this rather nonsensical attack of yours.

Again you are fixated on argument to prove your alternative is the “ best “ I simply don’t agree and I have put forward why. Even if the RBS works as you say , it’s not a full emergency bms contactor override.

I certainly , based on my personal experiences would always have full fail safe operation with full unconditional emergency contactor /BMS override. When the BMS fails a method must exist to unconditionally bypass the contactor and reconnect the battery to the boat. system.

It’s not material exactly how this is a achieved but that the facility exists.

Hence other then cost /performance if the objectives can be achieved by the ML RBS , as I’ve said “ fine “. As I have argued equally these objectives can be achieved by the TE EV200

My “crusade” is against you posting incorrect info. It is ridiculous to expect an answer from BlueSea (which you claimed you already had) stating something that is wrong. Even if the CEO claims it then it’s still wrong.

To be clear: you can NOT press in the yellow knob to switch the solenoid on when it’s turned to the right, that is just not true. It is locked in the OFF position. As soon as you turn it to the right, it will pop up to OFF.

When the knob is turned to the left, remote operation is enabled. That’s it.

This has nothing to do with discussing if one design is better than the other. This is just about you posting incorrect info even though you have zero experience with the device, just want to go against it because it is expensive and you love cheap

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

My “crusade” is against you posting incorrect info. It is ridiculous to expect an answer from BlueSea (which you claimed you already had) stating something that is wrong. Even if the CEO claims it then it’s still wrong.

To be clear: you can NOT press in the yellow knob to switch the solenoid on when it’s turned to the right, that is just not true. It is locked in the OFF position. As soon as you turn it to the right, it will pop up to OFF.

When the knob is turned to the left, remote operation is enabled. That’s it.

This has nothing to do with discussing if one design is better than the other. This is just about you posting incorrect info even though you have zero experience with the device, just want to go against it because it is expensive and you love cheap

You have obsessed about this switch for dozens of posts.

It’s irelevant because of it worlds as you say then in my opinion it’s not suitable as a proper manual BMS override because it cannot lock the battery on

Hence it does NOT meet the criteria that led to the creation of the RGleason diagram.

That criteria was full emergency manual override of bms contactor. If its as you say ,

The RBS does not meet the design criteria and therefore is unsuitable for that criteria.

You obsess with trivial issue trying to prove you’re right. But you miss the overall design criteria that lead to the component selection in the first place.

As for cheap ,not really , Blue sea don’t make stuff they OEM it. They are notorious for excessive “ marine” markups , they sell the TE EV200 as well at equally excessive markups. I buy through the trade at trade prices ( never pay retail I say )

Again this diagram was posted for the interest of posters. It’s been hi jacked by people picking to largely self justify their own purchases rather then a technical debate.

[fxykty]

I agree that this thread was diverted from interesting discussions regarding the posted system design. If either Jedi or GBN want to continue writing back and forth about the Blue Seas switch then please start another thread. Let’s keep this one per the OP’s request. TIA

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by fxykty

I agree that this thread was diverted from interesting discussions regarding the posted system design. If either Jedi or GBN want to continue writing back and forth about the Blue Seas switch then please start another thread. Let’s keep this one per the OP’s request. TIA

Agreed. It’s allowed to post wrong info on CF and I need to let it go

[rgleason]

Dear Crew,


Thank you for keeping your comments within reason, while respecting each other. Your passion and interests have informed us all about this device and alternative approaches. Thank you! I do think it would be a good idea to start a new thread about this particular discussion, if there needs to be further comment.

Once again thank you for informing us all about the ramification of these choices.


Rick

Originally Posted by fxykty

I agree that this thread was diverted from interesting discussions regarding the posted system design. If either Jedi or GBN want to continue writing back and forth about the Blue Seas switch then please start another thread. Let’s keep this one per the OP’s request. TIA

[goboatingnow]

Thank you. This thread was created my me to illustrate a systems approach to LFP design that met the designers needs and priorities. I believe it meets or exceeds ABYC or ISO requirements whilst also offering good emergency backup strategies.

Both I and the diagram designer came here to answer questions , outline the decision tree process and why things were done the way they are

This may be different to “ your “ system or design priorities but that’s not relevant.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by fxykty

I agree that this thread was diverted from interesting discussions regarding the posted system design. If either Jedi or GBN want to continue writing back and forth about the Blue Seas switch then please start another thread. Let’s keep this one per the OP’s request. TIA

I am the OP.

[newhaul]

Unsubscribing from this thread . It has drifted way to far .

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by newhaul

Unsubscribing from this thread . It has drifted way to far .

Good man loads of other threads to read