Boat Fire and Sinking in Route du Rhum

[skipperpete]

It’s the liquid equivalent of the crew sitting along the windward rail when racing. Pumps and tankage does the job but it would seem the stress was too great and the weather tank burst.

[wholybee]

Originally Posted by geoleo

....What did the Capt mean when he says " Hit large seas and my ballast exploded,allowing hundreds of liters of water into the boat"........I cant understand this.

Some racing boats have tankage in the boat and can pump water around to adjust trim. So imagine 400L of salt water in a tank high on the starboard side while on starboard tack. Then the tank busts open.

[geoleo]

Originally Posted by wholybee

Some racing boats have tankage in the boat and can pump water around to adjust trim. So imagine 400L of salt water in a tank high on the starboard side while on starboard tack. Then the tank busts open.

Now I get it. Thanks. Seems insane------------the whole scenario

[geoleo]

Originally Posted by geoleo

Now I get it. Thanks. Seems insane------------the whole scenario

PS Is this part of the "win at all costs narrative"?

[Franziska]

Originally Posted by geoleo

PS Is this part of the "win at all costs narrative"?

Those tanks are rare to fail and are a common feature on raceboats since many many years ago.

What is new is the level of acceleration and deceleration acting on them.
When a foiling boat at full blast gets stopped in irons when hitting a large wave its almost like hitting a wall.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by geoleo

PS Is this part of the "win at all costs narrative"?

Just fast sailing with small crew !!!!

[DragonflyBob]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

Pretty dramatic rescue from an Imoca monohull. Before the multihull types jump in, the boat was totally engulfed in flames before it sank.
[/I]

What the heck is this implying about “the multihull types”? Really?

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

Please tell me why the Tesla LiFePo4 batteries are not the same type of battery used in boats. Do you know something that I don't?

They are. But they're also the minority of EV batteries currently on the road. So any given EV battery fire is probably not LFP, but another lithium-ion chemistry.

[s/v Jedi]

Just the fact that the skipper claims his ballast, being seawater, exploded, shows the sheer display of ignorance.

Just like seawater is not explosive in sailboat environments, neither is a marine lifepo4 battery. A LA battery can explode, because they make hydrogen gas during charging. As they also contain acid, which is exploded around a wide perimeter during such catastrophe, they are a very dangerous thing to have aboard, only topped by propane bottles and gasoline jugs.

Yet we don’t talk about the dangerous LA batteries. We talk about the safe lifepo4 batteries because those who don’t want them for unexplained reasons (probably no money or being Luddite etc.) feel like they need to fabricate reasoning that supports not having them. It’s too hard to live with the feeling of missing out I guess

It also seems that some people ignore the experiments from ABYC which show exactly how safe they are, as well as dozens of videos showing everything including shooting them, spearing them etc. without any consequence.

[team karst]

is this relevant? I'm not a chemist, and didn't do well at it.

In what way and in what form does lithium react with water?

Lithium reacts intensely with water, forming lithium hydroxide and highly flammable hydrogen. The colourless solution is highly alkalic. The exothermal reactions lasts longer than the reaction of sodium and water, which is directly below lithium in the periodic chart.

2 Li(s) + 2 H2O -> 2 LiOH (aq) + H2(g)

At 750oC lithium reacts with hydrogen to lithium hydride (LiH). The white powder that forms releases hydrogen gas upon later reaction with water, in amounts of 2800 liter per kilogram hydride. As such, lithium can be applied as hydrogen storage.

[dannc]

Originally Posted by geoleo

PS Is this part of the "win at all costs narrative"?

I know of at least one model of cruising sailboat that has ballast tanks. The tanks have their advantages and disadvantages.

Later,
Dan

[dannc]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Just the fact that the skipper claims his ballast, being seawater, exploded, shows the sheer display of ignorance.

My translation of that description was that the ballast tank in use was on the windward/high side of the boat, and that when the tank, or its plumbing failed, water sprayed around the interior. Explosive might not be the best word for what happened but close enough.

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Just like seawater is not explosive in sailboat environments, neither is a marine lifepo4 battery. A LA battery can explode, because they make hydrogen gas during charging. As they also contain acid, which is exploded around a wide perimeter during such catastrophe, they are a very dangerous thing to have aboard, only topped by propane bottles and gasoline jugs.

I know of two boats that had LA battery explosions. One boat was on it's first passage after being built and sank as a result. The best guess is that when the battery(ies) exploded they over pressurized the fiberglass hull and the boat started to flood. The crew could not find the source of the water, the boat was flooding fast, and they had to abandon the boat. Thankfully, they were all rescued.

The other boat was steel, was still pretty new and had been in use for 6-12 months before a long passage was undertaken and some batteries exploded. In this case, the explosion just made a mess and reduced the house battery capacity.

Later,
Dan

[singlespeed]

Some great videos and articles on EV's burning up after immersion in salt water during the recent hurricane in the Ft. Myers area on the internet. None were involved in an accident that no might have damaged the batteries, either prior or at the start of the fires.

[wholybee]

Originally Posted by singlespeed

Some great videos and articles on EV's burning up after immersion in salt water during the recent hurricane in the Ft. Myers area on the internet. None were involved in an accident that no might have damaged the batteries, either prior or at the start of the fires.

Again. Not relevant, as the batteries in EVs are a different chemistry than LFP batteries used in boats. We all know that cars catch fire, and we all saw the news after the storm showing burnt cars.

What needs to stop is all the comparisons between car and boat fires, because the Lithium (not LiFePO4) batteries used in cars are extremely volatile, and Lithium batteries in boats (LiFePO4) are extremely safe.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by wholybee

Again. Not relevant, as the batteries in EVs are a different chemistry than LFP batteries used in boats. We all know that cars catch fire, and we all saw the news after the storm showing burnt cars.

What needs to stop is all the comparisons between car and boat fires, because the Lithium (not LiFePO4) batteries used in cars are extremely volatile, and Lithium batteries in boats (LiFePO4) are extremely safe.

Exactly
And it’s not only the chemistry, it’s also completely different wear and risk scenario.
EV is high voltage, high C rate which in itself is a big risk versus low C-rate and low voltage in boats which in itself is very low risk use.
Extremely save and low risk use case is a good combo