Genius alternator sensing relay

[CaptainRivet]

Just found that easy as relay:
GSL Electronics : Easyas
You can simply put that relay inbetween alternator and DC2DC and it will switch the DC2DC on when alternator is running and off is not. It’s sensing the ripple that only an alternator is producing.
This means the DC2Dc cannot drain your battery anymore.
You can also use a DC2DC converter with adjustable stabilized voltage instead a much more expensive DC2Dc charger. The relay switches the converter on/off with the alternator and it also limits the current due to its rating. You just set the adjustable voltage to 14V/28V and can charge this way your lifepo4…the last bit solar is much better suited.
Like this you can also cheaply build a big DC2DC with voltage up transformation eg the Victron Phönix 70A 12 to 24V plus this relay gives you a 70A charger that also transforms from 12 to 24V. That’s much better, safer and easier for cabling then via ignition switch because eg ignition on doesn‘t mean alternator is running…and for BMS to switch DC2DC off via remote connection too

[more]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

Just found that easy as relay:
GSL Electronics : Easyas
You can simply put that relay inbetween alternator and DC2DC and it will switch the DC2DC on when alternator is running and off is not. It’s sensing the ripple that only an alternator is producing.
This means the DC2Dc cannot drain your battery anymore.
You can also use a DC2DC converter with adjustable stabilized voltage instead a much more expensive DC2Dc charger. The relay switches the converter on/off with the alternator and it also limits the current due to its rating. You just set the adjustable voltage to 14V/28V and can charge this way your lifepo4…the last bit solar is much better suited.
Like this you can also cheaply build a big DC2DC with voltage up transformation eg the Victron Phönix 70A 12 to 24V plus this relay gives you a 70A charger that also transforms from 12 to 24V. That’s much better, safer and easier for cabling then via ignition switch because eg ignition on doesn‘t mean alternator is running…and for BMS to switch DC2DC off via remote connection too

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005...Cquery_from%3A

or

https://www.hellamarine.com/en/produ...relay-vsr.html

[smac999]

The Orion’s sense voltage and don’t need this…. Or ignition. And throttle current based on input voltage.

[more]

Originally Posted by smac999

The Orion’s sense voltage and don’t need this…. Or ignition. And throttle current based on input voltage.

why for good name somebody buy week orion 30A dc-dc for 300€ for 120 a you need 4 this is over 1200€ lot space 1/2 m2 cabling huge.
why not use ARGODIODE Battery Isolators 160A voltage drop 0,4-0,5V perfect for lifepo4 battery.
if you give me free and 500€ i dont instal on my boat orion.

[CaptainRivet]

To all it’s NOT a VSR means switches based on voltage as your Victron Orion smart does too.
The easyAS is so smart that it can discover if the voltage rise comes from solar or an AC charger or from an alternator and it does that via detecting the ripple voltages only an alternator is creating.
Your VSR or Orion will switch on if you connect an AC charger….and if AC charger is smaller then DC2DC load will completely drain your starter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdXL6s1lXEM

This video shows you the issues with eg an Orion also via ignition switch.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by smac999

The Orion’s sense voltage and don’t need this…. Or ignition. And throttle current based on input voltage.

For lifepo4 you don‘t need the throttling, it’s completely fine with a constant 14V from a converter till it’s full and BMS shuts it off. That’s exactly what you do when top balancing with a power supply. And that throttling is not protecting the alternator.
You need that throttling for lead but not for lifepo4.
And watch the video I posted why also the Orion creates issues that this relay fixes.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by more

why for good name somebody buy week orion 30A dc-dc for 300€ for 120 a you need 4 this is over 1200€ lot space 1/2 m2 cabling huge.
why not use ARGODIODE Battery Isolators 160A voltage drop 0,4-0,5V perfect for lifepo4 battery.
if you give me free and 500€ i dont instal on my boat orion.

Fully agree on that. And it’s not protecting the alternator fully, it just limiting the current to a threshold you think is save but is it really with 1400rpm motorsailing and an outliner 40 degrees hot day??

But this relay is a great solution if you have 12V starter plus battery and 115A Mitsubishi or 125A Valeo alternator (that does 80A charge and has internal temp protection to protect itself) and wanna go 24V house bank. That’s standard on newer Volvos, yanmars,betas,…so valid for a lot boats.

You get the easyAS relay 80 Euro and the Victron Phönix 12/24/70A DC2DC converter for 180Euro connect it to 12V starter and you have for 260Euro 70A charge in 12V converted to 24V 35A into your 24V lifepo4 house and charge with 12V your starter ONLY when the alternator is running.
Cheaper and simpler you cannot fix that…going 24V alternator cost triple…and you cannot charge your starter and need a DC2DC charger to do this. Using Orion you still have the issues above and only get 12A charge in 24V for 300Euro…

[smac999]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

For lifepo4 you don‘t need the throttling, it’s completely fine with a constant 14V from a converter till it’s full and BMS shuts it off. That’s exactly what you do when top balancing with a power supply. And that throttling is not protecting the alternator.
You need that throttling for lead but not for lifepo4.
And watch the video I posted why also the Orion creates issues that this relay fixes.

the throttling is needed for the input. if the alt is only putting out 20a at idle to the start battery the orion will throttle it's charge back to 15-20a to maintain 13v+ on the start battery. where as some brands like the promainer dc -dc will just cycle on and off every min at full current. as the input voltage cycles up and down to trigger the on and off set points

Then once the rpm is raised the orion current will raise back up to max.

this is more important if you have a couple of them. because an alt can't give 60a at idle. most can't even do 30

[smac999]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

To all it’s NOT a VSR means switches based on voltage as your Victron Orion smart does too.
The easyAS is so smart that it can discover if the voltage rise comes from solar or an AC charger or from an alternator and it does that via detecting the ripple voltages only an alternator is creating.
Your VSR or Orion will switch on if you connect an AC charger….and if AC charger is smaller then DC2DC load will completely drain your starter.

This video shows you the issues with eg an Orion also via ignition switch.

I watched the first 2 mins and shut it off. guy has no idea what's he's talking about. a dc to dc doesn't drain an engine battery. and a 10a charger to the start bank works fine. the orions will throttle down to 10a to maintain 13v+ on the engine battery. if configured correctly... if configured wrong they will cycle on and off. but neither way will they drain the engine battery

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by smac999

I watched the first 2 mins and shut it off. guy has no idea what's he's talking about. a dc to dc doesn't drain an engine battery. and a 10a charger to the start bank works fine. the orions will throttle down to 10a to maintain 13v+ on the engine battery. if configured correctly... if configured wrong they will cycle on and off. but neither way will they drain the engine battery

The guy knows exactly what he is talking about, better continue watching so you get the issues and how to fix them. Would be nice if the dc2dc does really that how you described but apparently it doesn't.
He experienced it himself and i did too.
And no the victrons don't scale back. I have the same issue with my DC2DC victron that charger to keep starter in float/storage runs once a week and absorption/float cycle and with that kicks on the DC2DC which drain starter as the 2 DC2DC with 60A draw more then charger can replace.

Then tell me how i should configure them so they throttle. I can only change change parameter when it shuts on which is 14V, 13.8V for 120s and switch off at 13.3V. The 115A mitzi does 40A at idle and i don't see the victrons to scale back, they pull there 52A till starter sag and shut off when starter drained.
Its in no way measuring the input from alternator, it just cares about the sag of the starter and if thats lower lower the current.
Which is actually a mess...that relay senses if the alternator is running by riple only alternator produce. So a charger to float from house its not switching on, victron does. And it switches off when alternator stops and this immediately and not draining starter further as the DC2DC do.

[hjohnson]

I just use an 18A orion to keep my starter battery happy in float, and have everything else charge my lithium bank directly under the direction/control of the BMS. Works a treat, and is easy to maintain and monitor. 18A is more than enough to keep a starter battery happy.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by hjohnson

I just use an 18A orion to keep my starter battery happy in float, and have everything else charge my lithium bank directly under the direction/control of the BMS. Works a treat, and is easy to maintain and monitor. 18A is more than enough to keep a starter battery happy.

Throw lead out and add 2nd LFP= bigger house and start from house on your small boat. No problem to add a 50 or 100AH LFP in parallel to existing.
No wasted energy on floating that dreaded lead and no DC2DC needed. Much simpler

[hjohnson]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

Throw lead out and add 2nd LFP and start from house on your small boat.
No wasted energy on floating that dreaded lead and no DC2DC needed. Much simpler

It only costs me a couple of watts to keep it on the float, so I Really don’t care. The total baseline load for my boat, including the orion, my monitoring setup, LTE router, instruments, and AIS transponder is 22W. I can make that up in solar power in the summer without much difficulty, though I’m usually plugged into shore power.

As far as the starter battery goes, It’s just a simple 90Ah lead acid marine start battery that cost me $90. In 5+ years when it wears out, it’s still cheap to replace. It doesn’t do anything other than start the engine and run the engine electrics, which are virtually nothing on a yanmar 1GM10.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by hjohnson

It only costs me a couple of watts to keep it on the float, so I Really don’t care. The total baseline load for my boat, including the orion, my monitoring setup, LTE router, instruments, and AIS transponder is 22W. I can make that up in solar power in the summer without much difficulty, though I’m usually plugged into shore power.

As far as the starter battery goes, It’s just a simple 90Ah lead acid marine start battery that cost me $90. In 5+ years when it wears out, it’s still cheap to replace. It doesn’t do anything other than start the engine and run the engine electrics, which are virtually nothing on a yanmar 1GM10.

Thats nothing...less then the standby of my 24/7/365 inverter.

90 plus 180 for the DC2DC is 270Euro, ypu get a 100AH LFP that lasts 10+ years.