how to boast your Victron Multiplus 2,4KW inverter with a cheap 3500W one to 5,9kw

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Not only that, but it also doubles the PowerAssist feature. I have two Multiplus 3000’s in parallel for 6000VA and I also have a 6kW genset so I can support a 10kW load easily

Think of having a Honda 2kW generator… supports 7kW this way!

Well the 12/3000 Multi is only 2400VA, so 2x2,4=4,8kw that cost you 3000Euro.
Sure Optimum and premium solution if you can afford it and have the rest of the infrastructure to run it. Is it really necessary if you have 12V System, a reliable 2-4kw HF inverter already installed but need more inverter power to run your electric galley?

You can theoretically do a 10kw load, your cables too starting with 3x10sqmm that’s needed for that? Does your 12V cables support 500A+? Which load is 10kw on a leisure boat?

I know you have 24V and there it’s easy to find adequate 3,5kw or 5kw to run your fully electric galley but if you stay 12V the only 5kw available is the very expensive Quattro 12/5000 that wouldn’t fit in the location I need to mount inverter.

[capn_billl]

Originally Posted by Shaneesprit

You cannot read the name plate on a Chinese product and believe the output.
That’s really the worst part, it’s not always that the quality is bad, it’s the outrageous output claims.

Or that instead of a hot 120v, and neutral, and ground, the output is +-50VAC between BOTH neutral and Hot, and ground on the GFCI is just connected to the transformer centertap, and the 12VDC.

And instead of 4 to 6 IGBT's or power MOSfets there are 30+ little transistors in series, and parallel.

And the "true sine wave" looks a lot like a square wave with a hump on top. (AB mode instead of A mode).

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by Na Mara

I still like the idea of boosting the output of my inverter using the power assist, but if you are shelling out 600euro why not just go the whole hog and get another multiplus and parallel it with the first one. That extra 600 euro then gets you all the connectivity and ease of monitoring through the bus system. It also gets you redundancy in charging and inverting.

I’ve just started putting my multi through its paces and it is an awesome piece of tech. seriously life changing.

You get real 4kw for 600Euro made in Germany high quality HF inverter while a 2nd Multi cost you 1500Euro for only 2,4kw more. You can get their 2,5kw for 350Euro, to compare apple to apple when it comes to continuous output. But fir 250Euro more you can get the biggest one that can run your 230V side alone without Victron. I like the redundancy and power available if needed for 250Euro more. Or a 3,5kw Edecoa for 300Euro but that’s not as reliable but I have and use it till i go 24V with 2x3,5kw Studer XTM 24/3500.

I figured that 95% of time only the Multi runs as cooking with the 3500W Bartscher IK3342 commercial grade induction cooktop I only use regularly 2000W and maybe twice a week for 10min the 2nd inverter switches on mostly when I cook a roast and run the icemaker in parallel for sundowner or a washing machine or the hot water boiler as full solar comes in and bank is full. You could do that one by one but I simply can do it and don‘t have to think if I can or not.
Is it worth to spend 1500Euro for what you need twice a week for 10min when a 300-350Euro hf inverter does the trick and actually has more headroom then with a 2nd multi. It gets used so little that even a cheap Chinese HF will last as long as a Multi...the solartronic will outlive the Victron for sure used like this. 2 Victrons in parallel means 2x45W in standby or slight usage, boost solution only 45W and that adds up in 24h...

The boost solution is especially interesting for the ones that have the 1600W 2000W Multi in 230V. You don’t need to buy a 2,4kw Multi for 1500Euro that’s still not enough, you just get 2nd inverter for 300-600Euro and install that.
You don‘t have a 1800W duxtop cooktop in 230V and a proper 2 burner is at least 2500W, most are 3500W.
The victron does daily job 7/24/365 while the boost inverter is only used when cooking supported by multi taking the phantom loads and peaks that’s bad for the HF inverter. Breakfast the 1600W can handle coffeemachine or tea kettle.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by capn_billl

Or that instead of a hot 120v, and neutral, and ground, the output is +-50VAC between BOTH neutral and Hot, and ground on the GFCI is just connected to the transformer centertap, and the 12VDC.

And instead of 4 to 6 IGBT's or power MOSfets there are 30+ little transistors in series, and parallel.

And the "true sine wave" looks a lot like a square wave with a hump on top. (AB mode instead of A mode).

There are really Chinese nightmares out there but also good ones. So forums, tear down videos and reviews are you best friend together with Amazon prime...
Or spare yourself this and get a midpriced solartronic made in Germany for the ones that don‘t need, don‘t want to afford or cannot afford 3000Euro for 2 Multi but want a reliable solution.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

Well the 12/3000 Multi is only 2400VA, so 2x2,4=4,8kw that cost you 3000Euro.
Sure Optimum and premium solution if you can afford it and have the rest of the infrastructure to run it. Is it really necessary if you have 12V System, a reliable 2-4kw HF inverter already installed but need more inverter power to run your electric galley?

You can theoretically do a 10kw load, your cables too starting with 3x10sqmm that’s needed for that? Does your 12V cables support 500A+? Which load is 10kw on a leisure boat?

I know you have 24V and there it’s easy to find adequate 3,5kw or 5kw to run your fully electric galley but if you stay 12V the only 5kw available is the very expensive Quattro 12/5000 that wouldn’t fit in the location I need to mount inverter.

You think “cheap cheap cheap” but I think “self reliance, reliability, redundancy, hardened systems, zombie hordes”. That is the difference.

Yes you can get this much cheaper but it will fail much quicker and you’ll be left without options.

Of course I have the cables to support this and no it is not theoretical; I have tested Power Assist to maximum level (12kVA) and so have many others.

You have missed a crucial aspect of this, namely the “achieving the impossible” features. I recommend reading all of this, but chapter 8 is where this comes up.

https://www.victronenergy.com/upload...limited-EN.pdf

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

You think “cheap cheap cheap” but I think “self reliance, reliability, redundancy, hardened systems, zombie hordes”. That is the difference.

Yes you can get this much cheaper but it will fail much quicker and you’ll be left without options.

Of course I have the cables to support this and no it is not theoretical; I have tested Power Assist to maximum level (12kVA) and so have many others.

You have missed a crucial aspect of this, namely the “achieving the impossible” features. I recommend reading all of this, but chapter 8 is where this comes up.

https://www.victronenergy.com/upload...limited-EN.pdf

I don't think cheap, I could have this installation much cheaper but build a lot safety, overhead and redundancy in it. But i think where it make sense to invest my money and where not as i have limited funds.
I have a multi and it can do all you mentioned. The 2kw honda can only support 1 multi with 120A charge, i have a 2nd phönix smart adding another 50A (was onboard and works as lead or as LFP charger by flipping a switch and change profile via BT) and this max out the honda with 170A charge. i can flip a switch and use shorepower instead 2nd inverter. Yes its not automatic like victron but it works and i hardly ever use shorepower, so thats sufficent.
The edecoa was running on that boat for 2 years without any trouble often to max spec. Now its running much less and only up to 2kw of its 3,5kw protected by victron from surge,peaks and phantom loads. Could maybe sell it for 150 and then?
So I have the 2nd inverter already and using it, the victron would always run in its limits without it, so both profit from each other.
If you use a solartronic that will be 1000% as realiable as victron have nearly double cont. Output for 1/3 of the money. And that 4kw will run reliably your boat even if victron dies. Not only victron make reliable inverters...
Eg if one victron dies in parallel the other is normally affected too. In this concept the 2nd inverter is most likely off and not harmed in any way. If i would get a 2nd multi i would most probably install it the same way and not paralleling it to save the standby power and runtime as 95% of time one is more then enough.

This solution gives you for little extra money the luxery to get 5.9kw out of a 2,4kw multi in 12V to run your electric galley and don't think about which appliance i can switch on or not.
Not everybody has the money to buy 2x Multi and spent 3000Euro but wanna get rid off gas and thats the reliable way.

You can always have something better, i have 2x Studer XTM 24-3500 which can do 2x9kw peak and they are much better, can do all a victron can do and more robust then 2 Victron Multis as they are real LF inverters with 18W standby and not 45 like Victron. They are lying at my parents but that system runs so well that i am really thinking of keeping it instead going dual voltage banks and run the studers. I can always do if the 2 inverter now goes up in smoke...

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

You think “cheap cheap cheap” but I think “self reliance, reliability, redundancy, hardened systems, zombie hordes”. That is the difference.

Yes you can get this much cheaper but it will fail much quicker and you’ll be left without options.

Of course I have the cables to support this and no it is not theoretical; I have tested Power Assist to maximum level (12kVA) and so have many others.

You have missed a crucial aspect of this, namely the “achieving the impossible” features. I recommend reading all of this, but chapter 8 is where this comes up.

https://www.victronenergy.com/upload...limited-EN.pdf

I read the book...

Have you ever tried to fully program or adjust your victron system without your adapters, PC or cerbo? You can't...you cannot even get into the adjustments of your multi without an adapter or cerbo and PC...you have the BT dongle na you can't as another adapter needed...so much for zombie hordes. The studer you can fully program or adjust via its remote panel nothing else needed. You can use a PC if you want but not needed.

Or the working spare concept? I have that implemented too, thats redudancy already installed but hardly ever runs but still does from time to time to spare a) the rest from overload which is mostly the root cause something dies b) and at the same time it is the test its still running fine. The boost concept is kinda the same. Its a 1min task to move the output from the 2nd inverter to boat AC system directly if victron dies.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

I read the book...

Have you ever tried to fully program or adjust your victron system without your adapters, PC or cerbo? You can't...you cannot even get into the adjustments of your multi without an adapter or cerbo and PC...you have the BT dongle na you can't as another adapter needed...so much for zombie hordes. The studer you can fully program or adjust via its remote panel nothing else needed. You can use a PC if you want but not needed.

Or the working spare concept? I have that implemented too, thats redudancy already installed but hardly ever runs but still does from time to time to spare a) the rest from overload which is mostly the root cause something dies b) and at the same time it is the test its still running fine. The boost concept is kinda the same. Its a 1min task to move the output from the 2nd inverter to boat AC system directly if victron dies.

These products are for installation by professionals only. If you want to DIY you have to gain the knowledge (Victron pro courses are free online) and buy the tools.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

These products are for installation by professionals only. If you want to DIY you have to gain the knowledge (Victron pro courses are free online) and buy the tools.

Studers you also installation by professionals but you don't need to buy any tools to install them other then what everybody needs to install electric equipment like inverters with 70sqmm2 cabels.
Victron Adapters over adapters that cost a hell of a money and used once and then lie around for nothing till you one day need to use it and then it doesn't work because connector is corroded...
add that to the pure equipement cost and its extremly expensive...victron squeeze the lemon where they can,private equity at its finest...and customers even defend that cruel business model, marketing done well....

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

Studers you also installation by professionals but you don't need to buy any tools to install them other then what everybody needs to install electric equipment like inverters with 70sqmm2 cabels.
Victron Adapters over adapters that cost a hell of a money and used once and then lie around for nothing till you one day need to use it and then it doesn't work because connector is corroded...
add that to the pure equipement cost and its extremly expensive...victron squeeze the lemon where they can,private equity at its finest...and customers even defend that cruel business model, marketing done well....

You should have several adapters:

- MK3-USB
- VE.Direct Smart Dongle

So for $125 you have both.

Also, if enough knowledge is acquired and a GX device is installed, one can configure via the online portal, not needing the adapter at all. Of course every good setup has a GX device

Like with all tools, they should be kept in a sturdy case preventing damaging or corroding them.

Nobody else has the features so there is no real alternative choice. We can only hooe that some day other manufacturers catch up

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

You should have several adapters:

- MK3-USB
- VE.Direct Smart Dongle

So for $125 you have both.

Also, if enough knowledge is acquired and a GX device is installed, one can configure via the online portal, not needing the adapter at all. Of course every good setup has a GX device

Like with all tools, they should be kept in a sturdy case preventing damaging or corroding them.

Nobody else has the features so there is no real alternative choice. We can only hooe that some day other manufacturers catch up

Wrong these are no tools these are adapters and a f... windows PC is needed, this worldwide leading company victron but losing massive market shares to studer in europe does not even have an IOS software.
Cerbo GX a great piece and i have it too but to connect your victron devices more overpriced adapter cables are needed...the BT smart devices with instand read out has all the values needed on BT and cerbo has BT but its not possible (it absolutly is easy to do) that the cerbo BT is receiving all these values via BT because they wanna sell their overpriced adapters....and because the cerbo has not enough connectors more adapters to connect the adapters...
I am waiting for the chinese isolated adapters and other cables as i am not supporting victron on this, the price for a piece of wire with connectors are ridicoulous at Victron.
Offshore, no web and your inverter stops working and your mk3 adapter does suddenly not work as it was not used for 2-3years...your screwed. Windows PC not working your screwed...
Studer the remote panel works permanently at nav station,
you can anytime change every setting and programm. If anything is wrong you see it immediately. I will install a 2nd next to inverters (working spare) when i install the studers.
Wrong Studers inverter charger have the same features as victron as power assist...incl. Military grade PCBs, oversized torodial transformers (the same one thats in the XTM 24/3500 can be found in the 24/5000 Multi or Quattro) and their MPPTs are on par with Victron.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

Wrong these are no tools these are adapters and a f... windows PC is needed, this worldwide leading company victron but losing massive market shares to studer in europe does not even have an IOS software.
Cerbo GX a great piece and i have it too but to connect your victron devices more overpriced adapter cables are needed...the BT smart devices with instand read out has all the values needed on BT and cerbo has BT but its not possible (it absolutly is easy to do) that the cerbo BT is receiving all these values via BT because they wanna sell their overpriced adapters....and because the cerbo has not enough connectors more adapters to connect the adapters...
I am waiting for the chinese isolated adapters and other cables as i am not supporting victron on this, the price for a piece of wire with connectors are ridicoulous at Victron.
Offshore, no web and your inverter stops working and your mk3 adapter does suddenly not work as it was not used for 2-3years...your screwed. Windows PC not working your screwed...
Studer the remote panel works permanently at nav station,
you can anytime change every setting and programm. If anything is wrong you see it immediately. I will install a 2nd next to inverters (working spare) when i install the studers.
Wrong Studers inverter charger have the same features as victron as power assist...incl. Military grade PCBs, oversized torodial transformers (the same one thats in the XTM 24/3500 can be found in the 24/5000 Multi or Quattro) and their MPPTs are on par with Victron.

Man you are gonna be so happy with your AliExpress inverter special, I don’t even know why you are discussing Victron! Put it in, go sailing, be happy!

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Man you are gonna be so happy with your AliExpress inverter special, I don’t even know why you are discussing Victron! Put it in, go sailing, be happy!

I knew thats coming...
I will....
4 port USB UART isolated to tsj VE direct that only uses 1 port at cerbo but can connect 4 VE direct devices...well tested and better then victron for 1/10 of price. You can get quality if you know what and where...