Is it possible to protect Balmar alt while using battleborn drop ins?

[Mg451]

Actually this is the revised version

[Tenedos]

Ok, I pulled the trigger on this project and purchased 6 Renogy LiFEPo4 batteries and replaced my AGMs and I am now trying to configure MC-614 for it but I ran into some confusion.

According to the manual as seen in the screenshot, there needs to be a LiFEPo4 profile (LFP) but in mine, it doesn't seem to exist. So, I chose UFP (Universal Factory Program - not sure what it is exactly but it looked like a generic profile) and proceeded to configure it using advanced settings.

I chose the belt load manager to be B-7 (65% field max). I have a 165A alternator, this should give me ~100A, which should be more than enough.

Now comes the confusing parts. Using the advanced menu, I tried to configure BV (Bulk Voltage), AV (Absorb Voltage) and FV (Float Voltage). I wanted to set the Bulk Voltage to 13.6, Absorb Voltage to 14.2 and Float Voltage to 13.5 but I couldn't. In my mental model Absorb Voltage should be higher than Bulk Voltage and Bulk Voltage should be higher than Float Voltage but the manual states otherwise (see screenshots).

So I basically set both the bulk and absorb voltage to 13.6 and float voltage to 13.5. So this will never really "top off" the battery but I think I am fine with that.

I am confused with Balmar settings though. Anyone has insight into this?

[Off Trail]

Rod explained it here

https://marinehowto.com/programming-...age-regulator/

There are constraints on some of the values where the order in which you make changes matters.

Strange about the LFP preset. Is it an older unit? My newer one (from marinehowto.com) is Labeled the mc618, and has an LFP mode.

[Tenedos]

Originally Posted by Off Trail

Rod explained it here

https://marinehowto.com/programming-...age-regulator/

There are constraints on some of the values where the order in which you make changes matters.

Strange about the LFP preset. Is it an older unit? My newer one (from marinehowto.com) is Labeled the mc618, and has an LFP mode.

Thank you, I watched Rod's videos a few times before I programmed this but looks like I missed that part. Looks like this nails it:

It’s far more simple to just call it bulk but some manufacturers have muddied those waters, including Balmar by calling a Constant-Voltage stage “Bulk Voltage”. Perhaps a better and less confusing term for Balmar’s “Bulk Voltage” stage would be “Absorption 1”, but I digress….

On LFP mode, wonder if it is a firmware thing. Mine is definitely MC-614 but maybe it is added in a later firmware? Maybe there is a way to "upgrade the firmware"?

[Tenedos]

Originally Posted by witzgall

If the charge voltages are below the BMS cutoff voltage, and the cells are balanced, then you won't get a shutoff. This issue to avoid is where cell imbalance takes one cell too high, and the bms shuts down, even with the pack voltage is under the bms pack voltage cutoff. This can be mitigated by NOT charging up to the upper charge voltage specified by the MFG. It is complicated by the fact that some BMS designs only balance at the top of the charge.

It is my opinion that this will happen at some point at the end of a pack's life. With a high quality pack, that is replaced when the total capacity is quite down, this may be avoided by preemptively replacing the pack. If a cell is bad, or mismatched, it can happen sooner. In either case you can end up with a BMS shutdown.

Chris

What an informative thread this has been! I have read the entire several times but I never truly understood the above comment from Chris until I got the lithium batteries myself.

These ones have a bluetooth interface, so I can see what is happening inside each battery, which is pretty cool. This screenshot shows one of the batteries that has unbalanced cells. So far, I couldn't get a voltage above 14.2 with this battery (BMS shuts down due to cell over voltage, as one of the cells reach 3.7V) though the battery is well it is within its limits (limit is 3.7V per cell and 14.8V per battery). I have been trying to balance the cells without success so far, will see how it plays out.

[daveNZ]

Reply #22, includes…’lithium should never be connected to an internally regulated alternator.’
My internally regulated alternator usually gets to 14.4V, and I have seen 14.6V which is within the charging range for e.g. BB.
In this case is the external regulator needed ONLY to limit the current ‘drawn’ from the alternator, and therefore the potential heat of the alternator?
Could a manually controlled alternator field be an option? I gather this used to be common.
Clearly I’m suggesting a drop in Lithium battery and no, or minimal, additional components. We survive on solar during the day and only need to replace overnight usage of about 30Ahrs, so don’t need max. charging etc.
Is this feasible, or stupid!?
Cheers.

[smac999]

Originally Posted by Tenedos

Ok, I pulled the trigger on this project and purchased 6 Renogy LiFEPo4 batteries and replaced my AGMs and I am now trying to configure MC-614 for it but I ran into some confusion.

bulk can never be lower then absorption. infact they are the exact same thing. most chargers you can only set 1 number for both. balmar for some reason has allowed different numbers.

durring bulk phase. you are not actully at the bulk voltage. you are trying to hit it but can't because the charger is maxed out. as soon as you hit it bulk voltage, you are no longer in bulk, you are now in absorb. because the charger is no longer maxed out and at the that point current will start droping. therefor bulk and absorb voltage setting is the same thing.

you probably want bulk and absorb at 14.2v and you want the absorb time set pretty low so it doesn't sit at 14.2 very long. the default is only 15 mins anyways.

since you are using ufc and not lithuim mode make sure you do not have a battery temp sensor connected. you do not want the balmar to adjust voltage for battery temp. that is probably the only thing the lithuim mode does is remove temp compensation.