Li Time vs Battle Born

[Peregrine1983]

I have a set of Battle Born batteries in a truck camper and they have been fantastic and reliable. The customer service is also second to none. I'd recommend them to anyone.

But...

I'm re-doing the electrical system on my boat and can't help but notice that (Li Time batteries specifically) offer amp hours at about one quarter of the price of Battle Borns. What's really the difference?

I found this comparison on the Battle Born website. The only concrete things they mention are cylindrical cells vs prismatic cells, terminal type, and lack of overcharge protection on the Li Times which in theory is mitigated by my Victron charge controller (edit).

Can anyone here explain the design differences between these batteries? Is the Battle Born price justified? Am I insane to consider putting LiTimes on my boat?

Thanks in advance for any help.

[wholybee]

I think the prismatic cells are reliable enough. What I think makes the difference is the sheer number of cells in a battleborn battery. IIRC, they are 1.5Ah each. So 200 or them in a 100Ah battery. That means that 30 of them can fail and the battery will still make 80% of rated capacity. I think that is how they calculate the 10 year warranty. Assume a 5% failure rate. That would be zero warranty claims for battleborn, but 5% of sales for claims for a prismatic battery.

That said, I think it is absurd that Battleborn still hasn't updated their BMS to include any kind of connectivity, and they haven't dropped their prices with the rest of the market. They are selling a battery of an old design with substandard features at a premium price. I would not even consider Battleborn to be on my short list of batteries to consider.

[Peregrine1983]

Originally Posted by wholybee

I think the prismatic cells are reliable enough. What I think makes the difference is the sheer number of cells in a battleborn battery. IIRC, they are 1.5Ah each. So 200 or them in a 100Ah battery. That means that 30 of them can fail and the battery will still make 80% of rated capacity. I think that is how they calculate the 10 year warranty. Assume a 5% failure rate. That would be zero warranty claims for battleborn, but 5% of sales for claims for a prismatic battery.

That said, I think it is absurd that Battleborn still hasn't updated their BMS to include any kind of connectivity, and they haven't dropped their prices with the rest of the market. They are selling a battery of an old design with substandard features at a premium price. I would not even consider Battleborn to be on my short list of batteries to consider.

That makes sense about the BB cells. I completely agree about the BB's being an old design without bluetooth connectivity or anything at a price that is well, well above the rest of the market.

Just curious - what brands would be on your short list to consider now?

[Peregrine1983]

Continuing my research here - I came across SOK batteries, which are marketed as marine grade with replaceable cells.

$316 USD for 100ah - https://www.us.sokbattery.com/produc...y-marine-grade

[wholybee]

Originally Posted by Peregrine1983

That makes sense about the BB cells. I completely agree about the BB's being an old design without bluetooth connectivity or anything at a price that is well, well above the rest of the market.

Just curious - what brands would be on your short list to consider now?

Rod at MHT has a lot of experience and this is his short list.
https://marinehowto.com/our-favorite-lifepo4-batteries/

I would also keep LiTime on my short list, only because they seem to have a large number of happy users. But Rod seems to have removed them from his short list.

[Peregrine1983]

Originally Posted by wholybee

Rod at MHT has a lot of experience and this is his short list.
https://marinehowto.com/our-favorite-lifepo4-batteries/

I would also keep LiTime on my short list, only because they seem to have a large number of happy users. But Rod seems to have removed them from his short list.

Thank you! Super helpful.

[Ixium]

Biggest issue I had with them was the no low temp charge cutoff

But I got a 400ah 12v for under 1300 CAD… so the price was well worth it

[CaptainRivet]

Agree with battleborn, too expensive.
If drop ins and you are willing to invest in quality and comunication valance, epoch and liontronics are on top of my list. But i prefer building my own batteries with cells and BMs so i can a) access the cells and b) can choose my own combo of cells and BMS.
Sunfunkits offer DIY kits with all incl. battery box and if you can maintain your engine you can easly build that battery and choose the cells and BMS you like.
SOK is also a good option, if pay the little higher price for the marine version as you can open the case without destroying and have access to cells and BMS.

Li-time are well working chinese surprise boxes that are a very good budget choice or just to add additonal capacity.
If not a costal cruiser or weekend boat and you want drop ins off the shelf I would get an epoch as main and master battery with the capacity for one day and add Li-time (only models with no parallel cells inside and NOT the small 100AH pooch cell one!!!, my recommendation chose the biggest capacity battery without parallel cells inside and parallel for needed capacity) for the capacity you want. Like this you have a top quality battery you can rely on and the Li-time reduces stress and load on it plus give you the capacity you want for less money. No need to spend a lot money on capacity.
For a coastal or weekend boat pure Li-time is more then ok. With li-time always use a victron BMV 700 or 712 victron battery monitor with a disconnect relay as last resort cut off gives you the reliable security and also the missing communication about SOC and current load/charge on the Li-time that the ok quality BMS inside these surprise boxes lack.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Peregrine1983

I
Can anyone here explain the design differences between these batteries? Is the Battle Born price justified? Am I insane to consider putting LiTimes on my boat?

Thanks in advance for any help.

The LI-Time and others have been around years now and are doing just fine. Battle Born and others are really now just sucking wind in trying to find a reason for you to spend 2-3 times more on their batteries IMO

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

The LI-Time and others have been around years now and are doing just fine. Battle Born and others are really now just sucking wind in trying to find a reason for you to spend 2-3 times more on their batteries IMO

You get what you pay for...
My major issue with them its a chinese surprise box where you have no glue whats happening inside, no SOC, no cell values, no cell deviation...
Only way to find roughly out is charge to 3.65V per cell or 14.8V till BMS shuts off, whats the cut off voltage...tells you only total deviation but not if you have a peaking cell or all have a higher deviation...
Even the cheapest BMS has bluetooth and an app now showing these data, not so LI-time...would make me think why, cannot be costs...

[donradcliffe]

Considering LiTime is priced less than equivalent AGM batteries, I've taken a chance on them. The Battleborns have small cells and lots of internal connections which are subject to breaking if your boat is pounding in the waves.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

Even the cheapest BMS has bluetooth and an app now showing these data, not so LI-time...would make me think why, cannot be costs...

maybe you should look stuff up before putting your typing fingers in your mouth so you would know you are wrong and save others the time to tell you

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

maybe you should look stuff up before putting your typing fingers in your mouth so you would know you are wrong and save others the time to tell you

I know stuff...

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

Considering LiTime is priced less than equivalent AGM batteries, I've taken a chance on them. The Battleborns have small cells and lots of internal connections which are subject to breaking if your boat is pounding in the waves.

Have a look at sunfunkits.com, you get better cells and BMS for the same amount of money then Li-time.

[CaptainRivet]

And in case you still decide to use Li-time nothing wrong with that.
Just really use a BMV 700 battery monitor and a cut off relay steered by the BMV 700 as i wouldn't trust the BMS inside to really be able to cut off in a desaster event like an internal cell short as mosfets have a tendency to melt close (one of the several is enough) but the BMV will. BMS will work fine in all standard stuff like LVC or HVC but if really **** hits the fan i have my doubts. Additionally an independent desaster cut off is also required due to ABYC, ISO strongly recommends it with lithium. The monitoring is then for free and usefull.