looking for DC2DC charger 12V to 24V 60 or 80A not Victron

[CaptainRivet]

HI all,
does anyone know reliable DC2DC charger 12V to 24V in 60 or 80A@12V other then Victron.
the only option i came across so far is th Sterling BB122470 with 70A@12V and charge 35A@24V for 450Euro. effectivly these go to 28,0V thats needed for LFP.

switching to 24V and need to convert 2 Alternators with each 80A/12V output into 24V/40A charge.

[s/v Jedi]

Mastervolt only goes up to 50A @ 12V side
https://www.mastervolt.com/products/...plus-12-24-30/

[CaptainRivet]

thank you Jedi.
Looking for a bit lower budget ones like Renogy but sadly theirs are only 12V ones.
Don't need all that bells and whisles in eg the victron ones, they will charge bulk only anyhow and controlled by electrodacus BMS.
Maybe there are 12-24 in 20A for around 100Euro ones, would be an alternative.
So I would install more of the cheaper ones for backup

In the end its a business case DC2DC versus 24V alternator with Nordkyn VSR200 regulator.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

thank you Jedi.
Looking for a bit lower budget ones like Renogy but sadly theirs are only 12V ones.
Don't need all that bells and whisles in eg the victron ones, they will charge bulk only anyhow and controlled by electrodacus BMS.
Maybe there are 12-24 in 20A for around 100Euro ones, would be an alternative.
So I would install more of the cheaper ones for backup

In the end its a business case DC2DC versus 24V alternator with Nordkyn VSR200 regulator.

Bulk only? Then you don’t need a smart version. Here’s a 20A continuous, 30A max output model so that’s 40-60A input for $160: https://shop.pkys.com/Victron-Energy...UaAtHNEALw_wcB

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Bulk only? Then you don’t need a smart version. Here’s a 20A continuous, 30A max output model so that’s 40-60A input for $160: https://shop.pkys.com/Victron-Energy...UaAtHNEALw_wcB

Thanks Jedi, there 150Euro here and exactly what i will go for, good old Victron design :-)
You can adjust the output voltage 20-30V, set to 28.4V=3,55V per cell and shut on via ignition wire and my Electrodacus BMS will shut them off via the remote port when battery is full. Its like charging via power supply when you top balance them. The BMV712 monitors both starters i will use its relay port to shut them off if below 12,8V so they can't drain the starters.
Full functionality of a DC2DC for LFP :-)
The biggest smart Orion has only 15A on the 24V and cost 280Euro.

The 20A cont./30max are already the 24V side, means 40A cont/60A max on the 12V alternator side for one. Fits perfect to the 115A alternator with temp regulation, if they cold they deliver 100A+ afterwards ramping down to 80A so for 300Euro they are maxed out. Will get 2 right away. for that amount it doesn't make sense to look for a solution to charge directly from the alternator, only the external regulator cost more. Will focus on regearing the 115A Mitzi.

[CaptainRivet]

[QUOTE=s/v Jedi;3751017]Bulk only? Then you don’t need a smart version. Here’s a 20A continuous, 30A max output model so that’s 40-60A input for $160: https://shop.pkys.com/Victron-Energy...UaAtHNEALw_wcB[/QUOTE

Correction, that Orion don‘t work as battery charger as they don‘t limit the current. They then simply trip the breaker. disappointing Victron stating you can top off batteries but they can actually not. Found this at Amazon and a thread at DIY solar confirmed it. S…. They would have fitted perfect. Back to 0….

[skipperpete]

Over here in Australia there’s a big demand for robust and sophisticated charging systems from the caravan and 4WD communities and there may be lessons to be learned from what the pro’s are installing. Redarc seems to be a top contender in the DC-DC charger offerings for outback campers with Victron more popular in marine applications.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by skipperpete

Over here in Australia there’s a big demand for robust and sophisticated charging systems from the caravan and 4WD communities and there may be lessons to be learned from what the pro’s are installing. Redarc seems to be a top contender in the DC-DC charger offerings for outback campers with Victron more popular in marine applications.

Redarc has no step up DC2DC from 12 to 24(28)V, different use cases for the 4x4 and RVs

[skipperpete]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

Redarc has no step up DC2DC from 12 to 24(28)V, different use cases for the 4x4 and RVs

Good point[emoji736]

[s/v Jedi]

[QUOTE=CaptainRivet;3751282]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Bulk only? Then you don’t need a smart version. Here’s a 20A continuous, 30A max output model so that’s 40-60A input for $160: https://shop.pkys.com/Victron-Energy...UaAtHNEALw_wcB[/QUOTE

Correction, that Orion don‘t work as battery charger as they don‘t limit the current. They then simply trip the breaker. disappointing Victron stating you can top off batteries but they can actually not. Found this at Amazon and a thread at DIY solar confirmed it. S…. They would have fitted perfect. Back to 0….

When your BMS can’t handle the output current then you simply get a smaller converter. I have never seen a BMS handle that little

[CaptainRivet]

[QUOTE=s/v Jedi;3751458]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

When your BMS can’t handle the output current then you simply get a smaller converter. I have never seen a BMS handle that little

My BMS Electrodacus doesn’t carry any current. The issue here due to 2 threads on Amazon and DIY solar is that this Orion 12/24 20A is not limiting the current and blow it’s device fuse when you connect it to an LFP battery. Maybe it works with a lead but not LFP.

[s/v Jedi]

[QUOTE=CaptainRivet;3752018]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

My BMS Electrodacus doesn’t carry any current. The issue here due to 2 threads on Amazon and DIY solar is that this Orion 12/24 20A is not limiting the current and blow it’s device fuse when you connect it to an LFP battery. Maybe it works with a lead but not LFP.

That is BS.

Also, it’s not what they say; this unit outputs 20A continuous but can do 30A when it’s cool. What the complaint is: it will trip the breakers because it goes “crazy high” output.

It is a fantastic product, but not in the hands of unqualified people who think they can install it.

Attached the review you talk about.

[CaptainRivet]

[QUOTE=s/v Jedi;3752067]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

That is BS.

Also, it’s not what they say; this unit outputs 20A continuous but can do 30A when it’s cool. What the complaint is: it will trip the breakers because it goes “crazy high” output.

It is a fantastic product, but not in the hands of unqualified people who think they can install it.

Attached the review you talk about.

So what you are saying you are 100% sure that with that
https://shop.pkys.com/Victron-Energy...UaAtHNEALw_wcB
i can charge my 24VLFP house from 12V lead starter with 20A@24V and it is limiting its current and not blowing its fuse?


well I don't know this particular product, so looking for reviews as product description and manual is not clear about that. Also price is 100Euro cheaper then TR-Series (not smart!) with more output.
What made me additionally curious is that product dscription states " suitable for boost charging battery" not "works as battery charger" like on the other Orion TR models. so what is boost charging a battery??? different to "work as a charger"?

Besides this one review similar at DIY Solar too (maybe same guy) I also couldn't find any that used it for charging of LFP battery. And having some bad experience with Victron products fine print lately that is like "hotel room with sea view", you can get a nice frontline full view or a tiny fraction between two builings infront of you...both called sea view.

[s/v Jedi]

[QUOTE=CaptainRivet;3752120]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

So what you are saying you are 100% sure that with that
https://shop.pkys.com/Victron-Energy...UaAtHNEALw_wcB
i can charge my 24VLFP house from 12V lead starter with 20A@24V and it is limiting its current and not blowing its fuse?


well I don't know this particular product, so looking for reviews as product description and manual is not clear about that. Also price is 100Euro cheaper then TR-Series (not smart!) with more output.
What made me additionally curious is that product dscription states " suitable for boost charging battery" not "works as battery charger" like on the other Orion TR models. so what is boost charging a battery??? different to "work as a charger"?

Besides this one review similar at DIY Solar too (maybe same guy) I also couldn't find any that used it for charging of LFP battery. And having some bad experience with Victron products fine print lately that is like "hotel room with sea view", you can get a nice frontline full view or a tiny fraction between two builings infront of you...both called sea view.

No it is not limiting it’s output current to 20A. It will start with 30A or more so your circuits must be able to handle that. I mean you first wanted a bigger unit which also require bigger cable and circuit breakers so why worry? Just use 80A or 100A input circuits from 12V and 40A or 50A output circuits to the 24V battery.

The converters starts cold and will do 30A, then as it gets hot it will throttle the output to control it’s temperature. Knowing how these designers think you can assume that it will end up outputting 20A continuous when the ambient air is 25 degrees Celsius. When it’s colder it will do a little more, when it’s hotter it will do a little less.

So these converters output as much current as they can without getting too hot. All of them work like that, also the smart models and also other brands.

Edit: to give some numbers: wire the 12V sides with AWG 6 and an 80A breaker and the 24V sides with AWG 8 and 40A breakers. If the circuits are longer, use a wire gauge calculator to stay within a reasonable voltage drop, but ai think your circuits are short for which the above is okay.

[CaptainRivet]

Hi jedi,
well my system is not the problem, designed to run at 600A constant with 12V so have enough headroom in 24V now

the issue here is they are 2 types of converter around, not one:
type 1: the converter type which simply converts the volts up or down and the curcuit is designed for x amps=load max., when you exxceed the amps the device fuse blows or it simply burns through. Cannot use as charger.

type 2: charger or power supply type which converts an amount of voltage and amps, protected by a current limiter designed to run x amount when hot and overtemp protection. exactly as you describes it starts cold and will do 30A, then as it gets hot it will throttle the output to control it’s temperature.
So if you hook type 1 to an LFP with an internal resistance of 10-20mOhm, so basically a short, the voltage regulation will go bonkers and because nothing limits the current the device fuse will blow. And looking at the price and cannot find another thread where these Orions are used as charger make me think its a type 1. I can find plenty for the 24/12 70 and all are type 1 scenarios, no single one charging an LFP.

Will get 2 of the Orion 24-12-70A (70A ones) to convert down from 24V for the legacy nav station and new 12V loads. COuld test with one but will post in Victron forum and ask there about LFP charging.