Low Budget Lifepo4 Experiences anyone?

[mitiempo]

Originally Posted by CarlF

Too many posts to see if it's already be mentioned but here are two good ways to protect the alternators against a BMS shutoff:

- A simple relay that parallels the Lithium house and lead acid start banks whenever the ignition switch is on - obviously this only works if the lead acid bank is happy at the lithium charge voltages (which is usually true of both AGM and flooded start batteries that are usually at almost 100% charge) https://shop.marinehowto.com/product...ction-solenoid

While that does protect the alternator from a BMS shutoff it does nothing for alternator over heating. It is likely the alternator will die from overheating well before the BMS shutoff, especially if the LiFePo4 is at a lower SOC.

The safest solution is a DC-DC charger between the battery banks.

[Franziska]

Originally Posted by rgleason

Franziska great thread with good questions and advice. I have followed but not read it all 384 posts.
Wholybee had a diagram here
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums....php?p=3402385

Is has your system as built changed from that much? Some pictures and description of your system and equipment as it is ending up would be very helpful when you get a chance.

Hi Rick,

at the boat at last after full vaccinations. Horray!

Waiting for Solar and Batteries to arrive any day now.
Installation will start in about 3 weeks, we need to complete the new support first.

Things are slowly but steadily progressing.

More, in a while. Will add pictures than as well.

Stay healthy and enjoy the summer, Franziska

[rgleason]

Hope your installation goes well.

[Franziska]

Originally Posted by rgleason

Hope your installation goes well.

Not yet, stuff still has not arrived, but still plenty of other stuff to do, see attached.

Glad it is only the outer stem, starboard is fine. Will epoxy new wood in soon and then properly glass it over.

It's progressing though, and I'm in good spirits :-)
Attachment 241033

[EngineerRetired]

We are going into production of 12, 24, 36, and 48 volt batteries/systems using these cells. (Including the BMS) We have a very reputable supplier with whom I am confident enough we will be issuing a warranty for the batteries we build. We will be doing this at a significant lower price point than say BattleBorn.


One of our major advantages is we will build YOUR batteries to fit YOUR space available. Have an odd shaped space, a long narrow space, wedge shaped? We are not locked into "standard" battery box sizes.


To answer the OP, yes these are good batteries if you get grade A from a reputable vendor.

[newhaul]

Will prouse 100ah lfp drop in for $500
Not a bad deal and looks to be good build quality

https://youtu.be/xBonGQe363g

[mitiempo]

Originally Posted by EngineerRetired

We are going into production of 12, 24, 36, and 48 volt batteries/systems using these cells. (Including the BMS) We have a very reputable supplier with whom I am confident enough we will be issuing a warranty for the batteries we build. We will be doing this at a significant lower price point than say BattleBorn.


One of our major advantages is we will build YOUR batteries to fit YOUR space available. Have an odd shaped space, a long narrow space, wedge shaped? We are not locked into "standard" battery box sizes.


To answer the OP, yes these are good batteries if you get grade A from a reputable vendor.

Only one drop-in battery will meet ABYC's new standards - Lithionics.

Will yours?

[evm1024]

Originally Posted by mitiempo

Only one drop-in battery will meet ABYC's new standards - Lithionics.

Will yours?

FUD - Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by mitiempo

Only one drop-in battery will meet ABYC's new standards - Lithionics.

Will yours?

Does it really matter as ABYC are just recommendations not regulations.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by evm1024

FUD - Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt.

Where are the install pictures

[Franziska]

Originally Posted by newhaul

Does it really matter as ABYC are just recommendations not regulations.

True, and are really "just" the US viewpoint on this :-)

I think it is generally a great idea to build these custom made batteries.
Time will tell if they are good value.

It seems unlikely that they are worse than DIY built batteries based on these cells.

[EngineerRetired]

Originally Posted by mitiempo

Only one drop-in battery will meet ABYC's new standards - Lithionics.

Will yours?

I have not DLed the full PDF yet but from what I have seen we would exceed their recommendations. As an example ABYC recommends external communication for the batteries SOC, current draw, charge rate, etc. we go a step further and do 30 day history data logging on each cell. Another example is that our shunts are much more capable than they recommend. It goes on but you get the idea.



With all that said, there is not a "drop-in" battery I am fond of. Our approach is the entire house or electric motor bank needs to communicate to an intelligent BMS (battery management system) and charger(s)


Currently we are working with LiFePO4 batteries but are deeply involved with LTO cells/batteries and we believe it is the chemistry everyone will be moving to in the not to distant future.


The advantages are numerous;
Its nearly impossible to have a run away melt down. (You can drive nails through them without any danger.)
They can be charged VERY rapidly. Say on the order of 10 minutes with the proper supporting hard/software. They can provide almost unheard of power/amperage (discharge in about the same 10 minutes).
LiFePO4 batteries have a cycle life of around 4,000 to 5,000. LTO cells have a cycle life of 20,000 or more. If you drain and recharge everyday it will take 50 years to wear them out. Longer than the life of most boats.


In summation, we are working to stay at the forefront of boat electrification through better batteries and battery management systems. We are NOT, repeat NOT trying to be a one size fits all "drop in" manufacture and instead want to provide systems that meet the boaters needs at a price point that makes sense.


Finally, I know I am new in this forum and I fully expect folks to demand I earn credibility here. No problem and if I can help anyone please just speak up.


Sail on...

[mitiempo]

Originally Posted by EngineerRetired

I have not DLed the full PDF yet but from what I have seen we would exceed their recommendations. As an example ABYC recommends external communication for the batteries SOC, current draw, charge rate, etc. we go a step further and do 30 day history data logging on each cell. Another example is that our shunts are much more capable than they recommend. It goes on but you get the idea.



With all that said, there is not a "drop-in" battery I am fond of. Our approach is the entire house or electric motor bank needs to communicate to an intelligent BMS (battery management system) and charger(s)


Currently we are working with LiFePO4 batteries but are deeply involved with LTO cells/batteries and we believe it is the chemistry everyone will be moving to in the not to distant future.


The advantages are numerous;
Its nearly impossible to have a run away melt down. (You can drive nails through them without any danger.)
They can be charged VERY rapidly. Say on the order of 10 minutes with the proper supporting hard/software. They can provide almost unheard of power/amperage (discharge in about the same 10 minutes).
LiFePO4 batteries have a cycle life of around 4,000 to 5,000. LTO cells have a cycle life of 20,000 or more. If you drain and recharge everyday it will take 50 years to wear them out. Longer than the life of most boats.


In summation, we are working to stay at the forefront of boat electrification through better batteries and battery management systems. We are NOT, repeat NOT trying to be a one size fits all "drop in" manufacture and instead want to provide systems that meet the boaters needs at a price point that makes sense.


Finally, I know I am new in this forum and I fully expect folks to demand I earn credibility here. No problem and if I can help anyone please just speak up.


Sail on...

That makes sense, sounds like a good plan. Doubt you will beat Battleborn pricing with your expected standards though, especially custom batteries.

While it is true that ABYC is a recommendation, not law in the US, surveyors go by it and if they don't like something major like electrical it will be hard if not impossible to get insurance.

[mitiempo]

I received my 8 Calb CA180 cells last week. Top balancing about to start.

400 AH @ 12 volts for $902 US delivered. Less expensive that fla golf cart batteries.

Will be using the Electrodacus SBMS0 BMS. Charger, DC-DC, inverter and solar controller all Victron.

[newhaul]

Don't remember if I posted this or not in this thread