Low Budget Lifepo4 Experiences anyone?

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by evm1024

Here you go.

4PCS VariCore 3.2V 280Ah lifepo4 battery DIY 12V 280AH Rechargeable battery pack for Electric car RV Solar Energy storage system
(LiitokalaVariCoreFlagship Store)

Looks like the price went up...

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005...41be4ffeNGSNju

I'm almost jealous now.

[evm1024]

If I buy another set you are welcome to piggy back in. Sadly they are collecting WA state tax...

[Beausoleil]

Originally Posted by newhaul

Battleborn seem to have a good reputation .

Where do you get the idea an insurance company cares about your choice of battery?
In all my years i have never heard of an insurance company asking about the type of battery bank is on the boat.

RISK

Any reputable insurance company does care about your choice of battery.

If you have FLA batteries, capable of off-gassing hydrogen, installed in sleeping quarters, insurers view that as a risk to life. If you have a DIY lithium system, that's higher risk in general than compared to an engineered system from a proven, low-risk manufacturer and installed by a certified installer.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Beausoleil

RISK

Any reputable insurance company does care about your choice of battery.

If you have FLA batteries, capable of off-gassing hydrogen, installed in sleeping quarters, insurers view that as a risk to life. If you have a DIY lithium system, that's higher risk in general than compared to an engineered system from a proven, low-risk manufacturer and installed by a certified installer.

How is a properly installed diy lifepo4 bank more dangerous than fla bank and its off gassing of hydrogen?

[mitiempo]

Originally Posted by alaskanviking

Not sure about the best brands for rae cells. There is calb (plastic casing), eve, lushon, that seem to be popular in the diy market. Looks like there are several venders for those brands, and some knock offs as well.

Conversion to Lifepo4 batteries generally isn't too difficult. The cell voltage is close to lead acid. But not a 1 for 1 swap either. A lot of chargers have a setting for these now. Smarter chargers, victron brands and others you can get in and change the voltage settings. So maybe you have to get a new charger, maybe you need to change a setting. You will need to check your equipment manual. You could upgrade the charger to a smart charger that does both in advance to spread the cost out.

Solar and wind chargers are usually good, and just have to change settings. Check the manuals

The alternator is where you generally have issues. The lithium batteries can take more juice from the alternator and they tend to have more capacity so that keeps the alternator at full load far longer than a lead acid bank. really works the alternator. Alternators overheat or the Bearings and components can fail fairly fast. Voltage isn't smart either, so you can damage your cells with high voltage. Different solutions to this problem, but it's a critical issue that you need to work out for your system.

You need a BMS. There is debate on this, however I've seen more evidence for using a BMS. Protects your expensive battery cells from damage from excessive discharge or charging. It also monitors the individual cell voltage and tries to keep them in synch, which helps prevent damaging a cell. There are some decent cheap ones, and there are some expensive ones. The main difference between raw cells and manufactured lifepo4 batteries like battle born is the manufactured batteries has a BMS inside the battery case, and you just need to connect cables like a lead acid battery.

If your in cold weather you also may need a heater of some kind. Like a silicone heater pad wrapped around the cells. You can't charge without damaging the cells below a certain temperature.

Battery monitor, absolutely. You need to know how much is in your bank. The cells can be damaged by excessive discharge or overcharging. Guidance is to keep batteries somewhere between 20%-98% charge. A battery monitor makes sure you what the state of charge is on you bank at all times, so you know when to turn on the genny, or go home to plug in.

Some of these components you can upgrade in advance. Chargers, alternators and regulators, battery monitors ect.

Yes you need a BMS. Without it your cells will not last anywhere as long as lead acid batteries.

Alternators have a very short life if not configured properly with LiFePo4. The easiest way is to use a lead acid battery for start and use a DC-DC charger for the lithium bank. Victron has a few that work well.

Temperature in a boat shouldn't be a problem unless you are on the hard, If in the water they will be warm enough unless you are in Greenland.

You need to balance the cells, you need a battery monitor, and you need to shut off both charge sources when the bank is charged and loads when the bank is low.

This is my solution:

https://electrodacus.com/
It monitors, cell balances, shuts off charging and loads at whatever voltage you wish - 14.2 and 11.2 for example. It is also a solar controller. Or it can control a good solar controller like a Victron.

And it is not expensive.

Here's a how-to with a full description:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCspxDLZR9U&t=20s

As far as cells, why buy the cheapest? Did you buy the cheapest lead acid batteries you could find or good ones? It makes sense to buy quality so you do not have to buy again so soon.

I am buying Calb cells. Probably Gen 2 but their Gen 3 look awesome.

[mitiempo]

Originally Posted by newhaul

How is a properly installed diy lifepo4 bank more dangerous than fla bank and its off gassing of hydrogen?

Makes no difference to the few insurance companies that will not insure if you have lithium.

I have never had an insurance company ask about batteries.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by mitiempo

Makes no difference to the few insurance companies that will not insure if you have lithium.

I have never had an insurance company ask about batteries.

It's the usual strawman argument against lfp and nothing more

[evm1024]

Originally Posted by newhaul

It's the usual strawman argument against lfp and nothing more

Just to be clear - Newhaul is talking about the prior posts saying that insurance companies may not insure you if you use LiFePO4.

he is agreeing with mitiempo. (correct me if I read this wrong) I also agree with mitiempo when he said:

Originally Posted by mitiempo View Post
Makes no difference to the few insurance companies that will not insure if you have lithium.

I have never had an insurance company ask about batteries.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
As a side note:

It is always discouraging to me when the cautious (who would never use LiFePO4 anyway) come into a LiFePO4 thread and cast aspersions on the chemistry.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by evm1024

Just to be clear - Newhaul is talking about the prior posts saying that insurance companies may not insure you if you use LiFePO4.

he is agreeing with mitiempo. (correct me if I read this wrong) I also agree with mitiempo when he said:



-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
As a side note:

It is always discouraging to me when the cautious (who would never use LiFePO4 anyway) come into a LiFePO4 thread and cast aspersions on the chemistry.

You read it correct i was agreeing with brian

[Letterkenny]

Originally Posted by evm1024

Here you go.

4PCS VariCore 3.2V 280Ah lifepo4 battery DIY 12V 280AH Rechargeable battery pack for Electric car RV Solar Energy storage system
(LiitokalaVariCoreFlagship Store)

Looks like the price went up...

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005...41be4ffeNGSNju

How do these compare size wise to the standard 80/100ah AGM/flooded batteries?

[evm1024]

Originally Posted by Letterkenny

How do these compare size wise to the standard 80/100ah AGM/flooded batteries?

A single set of 4 (13.2v, 280 AH) is 8" tall, 11.25" wide and 6.8" deep. THis is about the size of a Group 27 battery. Roughly the size of a single Trojan T-105 but 2" shorter. Of course you will need 2 of the T-105.

http://www.dcmax.com.tw/LF280(3.2V280Ah).pdf

[Cruziansailer]

We are opening a warehouse in Nc buy direct let me know maybe I can beat the used cell prices or get very close. Much of china uses electric powered busses they use the Batterys for one year then sell and they will tons of cycles on them.
You can build your own very easy make them custom to your available space. We can help if you need any. Larry. 828-333-0419

[Scubaseas]

Originally Posted by newhaul

Battleborn seem to have a good reputation .

Where do you get the idea an insurance company cares about your choice of battery?
In all my years i have never heard of an insurance company asking about the type of battery bank is on the boat.

Most insurance companies will want a survey if you are going for anything more than just liability. Since there is no standard for LiFePo4 how is the surveyor to say you are in compliance or not? Might be an easy out for the insurance company to say "no thanks we don't want to insure you". I'd hate to dump $4K plus into a lithium system only to find out it makes getting insurance difficult to impossible.

If you have a loss that was in any way electrical or fire and there was a non standard, non code battery installation that you did after taking the policy out you think maybe the insurance company may pick up on that factoid to not pay a claim?

[kenbo]

Originally Posted by Scubaseas

Most insurance companies will want a survey if you are going for anything more than just liability. Since there is no standard for LiFePo4 how is the surveyor to say you are in compliance or not? Might be an easy out for the insurance company to say "no thanks we don't want to insure you". I'd hate to dump $4K plus into a lithium system only to find out it makes getting insurance difficult to impossible.

If you have a loss that was in any way electrical or fire and there was a non standard, non code battery installation that you did after taking the policy out you think maybe the insurance company may pick up on that factoid to not pay a claim?

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the majority of insured sailboats do not meet the ABYC code for electrical systems.

[Scubaseas]

Originally Posted by kenbo

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the majority of insured sailboats do not meet the ABYC code for electrical systems.

I don't disagree with that but I found getting insurance difficult and there were items on my survey (recent purchase) that had to be fixed prior to having a policy issued. I don't know if you have tried getting new insurance on an older boat recently but it's not as easy as it used to be.