Making a cheap BMS ABYC compliant

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Did you already post that you were wrong

Reading back, I wish I had formulated that different, it sounds bad as it is now. But I can’t edit it anymore.

What ai meant to write is that there are too many posts and I don’t have enough time to read everything… I don’t know if this was made clear already that ABYC does indeed specify this requirement.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

I have posted about how to setup a Victron BMV to send alarms on low voltage, high voltage and cell balance.

For visual per cell monitoring: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07797N9BG

I am looking for independent of the BMS also remember I'm not running any victron on my boat . Just looking for a cheap add on alarm that is user stable for over voltage .
Which would then make my setup acceptable to the ABYC.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by newhaul

I am looking for independent of the BMS also remember I'm not running any victron on my boat . Just looking for a cheap add on alarm that is user stable for over voltage .
Which would then make my setup acceptable to the ABYC.

Well then hope that your battery monitor is as feature rich as a Victron. But how does this not make that cell monitor work for you?

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Well then hope that your battery monitor is as feature rich as a Victron. But how does this not make that cell monitor work for you?

The only thing I don't have is a high voltage audible alarm that I could program to trigger at 14.8vdc. Ie 3.7vpc. Shut off is 3.75vpc

That's all I have need for to be within ABYC recommendations.
And unless I missed something the cell monitor does not have an audible high alarm

[tanglewood]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Hmm E-13 is rather prescriptive

“13.5.6 If a shutdown condition is approaching, a BMS should notify the operator with a visual and/or audible alarm prior to disconnecting the battery from the DC system.”

That's from the technical report, TE-13, not E-13 which is the published standard. In E-13 it's a note in section 13.7.3. Notes are advisory, and it's a "should", not a "shall".

[tanglewood]

Originally Posted by newhaul

It will not be suggested ( ABYC has no authority to require anything) untill the big "drop ins" are ready to come online with a solution within their product.
Just won't happen not in my lifetime .

I'm not sure what leads you to that conclusion. My crystal ball says otherwise, but I obviously don't know for certain.

[tanglewood]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Did you already post that you were wrong?

13.5.1 All lithium ion battery systems should have a BMS installed to prevent damage to the battery and provide for battery shutoff if potentially dangerous conditions exist.

13.5.3 Consideration should be given to providing alternative power for critical systems (e.g., engine starting, navigation lights, etc) if a BMS shuts down the battery.

13.5.6 If a shutdown condition is approaching, a BMS should notify the operator with a visual and/or audible alarm prior to disconnecting the battery from the DC system.

13.7.7 No electrical connections should be made directly to a lithium ion battery that would bypass a BMS or the protection relays.

13.7.8 All battery output circuits should have overcurrent protection as per ABYC E-11, AC & DC Electrical Systems on Boats.

13.7.9 A battery system disconnect switch (or switches) should be readily accessible without reaching over the battery (see ABYC E-11, AC & DC Electrical Systems on Boats, battery switch requirement).

13.9.2 Redundant Protection - A BMS should be equipped with HVC and LVC actions in response to an HVE or LVE when the programmed functions in the charging sources, inverters, or inverter/chargers, etc fail to do so.

13.9.4.1 Means of protection should not disconnect critical loads without prior warning and should not stop the charging source in a manner that causes damage to the charging device.

13.9.7 A BMS or system design should ensure that parasitic loads will not result in an LVE.

I am not even going to respond to those who say “should” is not “must” other than this: The ABYC gives recommendations, they are not code. There is no “must” anywhere. You should just admit that you were all wrong stating that ABYC does not require all that I copied above, instead of twisting and spinning words just to keep arguing.

In order to comply with ABYC:

- you must have fuses
- you must have a main battery switch
- you must have a BMS
- you must have multiple batteries
- your BMS must be able to do HVC, LVC as well as temperature related cutoff.
- your BMS must have prior warning to cutoff events
- your BMS must turn off the alternator prior to cutoff events
- you can not run power solenoids because they can cause LVC so you must have MOSFET or latching solenoid options.

You are quoting the technical report, not the final E-13 standard.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by newhaul

The only thing I don't have is a high voltage audible alarm that I could program to trigger at 14.8vdc. Ie 3.7vpc. Shut off is 3.75vpc

That's all I have need for to be within ABYC recommendations.
And unless I missed something the cell monitor does not have an audible high alarm

Read it again, afaik it says audible and/or visual. If you install the cell monitor then you have visual (I’m pretty sure I have heard it beep so…) and comply.

Maybe one day buy a beautiful Victron Smart BMV and you get all the visual and audible alarms for low voltage, high voltage, cell balance etc.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by tanglewood

You are quoting the technical report, not the final E-13 standard.

They changed the E-13 recommendation (they don’t publish standards) without updating the final draft?! That’s daft!

I think I have E-13 somewhere as well, need to replace it in my work folder.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

I think I have E-13 somewhere as well, need to replace it in my work folder.

I can’t find it. Whoever send it to me or anyone else who has it, please pm me a link or send it as attachment to my email.

Saves me some embarrassing moments like above…

[tanglewood]

You guys need to tear up TE-13, delete the PDF, and get the only published version of E-13 which is dated July 2022.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Read it again, afaik it says audible and/or visual. If you install the cell monitor then you have visual (I’m pretty sure I have heard it beep so…) and comply.

Maybe one day buy a beautiful Victron Smart BMV and you get all the visual and audible alarms for low voltage, high voltage, cell balance etc.

Just need a simple audible when it reaches set high voltage point . Not needed just makes It align with ABYC E13 recommendations.
Not worth the cost of the victron unit . To me .

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by tanglewood

I'm not sure what leads you to that conclusion. My crystal ball says otherwise, but I obviously don't know for certain.

Industry experience that's all many years experience in the marine field

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

I can’t find it. Whoever send it to me or anyone else who has it, please pm me a link or send it as attachment to my email.

Saves me some embarrassing moments like above…

Relevant parts are in this article
https://panbo.com/abyc-ratifies-e-13...tery-standard/

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by newhaul

Lead start battery and dc dc chargers solve that issue . Why make it difficult. KISS.

It’s not a great solution

Kiss is idiotic , if it’s not a good solution in the first place and requires big dc dc converters which are not needed if you do it right.

Design THE system to withstand bms cutoff that’s KISS.