Making a cheap BMS ABYC compliant

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by tanglewood

You guys need to tear up TE-13, delete the PDF, and get the only published version of E-13 which is dated July 2022.

It no different

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

It’s not a great solution

Kiss is idiotic , if it’s not a good solution in the first place and requires big dc dc converters which are not needed if you do it right.

Design THE system to withstand bms cutoff that’s KISS.

Design system to withstand ? Design system so it doesn't happen more like.
Design : alternator to lead start bank and dc dc charger to lifepo4 bank . What's not simple and not a good solution? Just doesn't seem to be right for you . Thing is you don't have lifepo4 on your boat.
Aside from using alternatorvto charge bank is not efficient doesn't matter how big your alternator. If your using Dino juice to charge better off to run big shore charger and generator. Much more efficient.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by newhaul

Design system to withstand ? Design system so it doesn't happen more like.

Design : alternator to lead start bank and dc dc charger to lifepo4 bank . What's not simple and not a good solution? Just doesn't seem to be right for you . Thing is you don't have lifepo4 on your boat.

Aside from using alternatorvto charge bank is not efficient doesn't matter how big your alternator. If your using Dino juice to charge better off to run big shore charger and generator. Much more efficient.

Running a big alternator through an invertor back to a charger is abject nonsense s
Inefficient costly nonsense


Why go to at this messing about when you can with a proper setup run your alternator direct to LFp.

I don’t intend to have any lead on board after conversion

Mine will be kiss then

Your right I’m not converting to LFp until I can do it right , not the current hodge podge approach

Protecting the alternator from unexpected bms disconnect is good systems design. This should be central in any LFp system. Slapping in lead to do this is a kludge . Protecting the alternator by field shutdown and or spike protection. Isn’t complex and is s good idea anyway , let’s do it right first time.

I have at the last count 8 LiFePO4 being used in the boat !!!

Talking at METS there will be a slew of new products in this area soon but at “ marine prices “ this will in lfp drop ins with interconnected bms , new alternator protection ( Sterling have a very sophisticated one coming out, see the alternator Linearisation Device ) devices and stacks of marine bms with fancy telemetry and of course fancy pricing

Quality marine LFP to latest standards is going to be very expensive imho.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Running a big alternator through an invertor back to a charger is abject nonsense s
Inefficient costly nonsense


Why go to at this messing about when you can with a proper setup run your alternator direct to LFp.

I don’t intend to have any lead on board after conversion

Mine will be kiss then

Your right I’m not converting to LFp until I can do it right , not the current hodge podge approach

Protecting the alternator from unexpected bms disconnect is good systems design. This should be central in any LFp system. Slapping in lead to do this is a kludge . Protecting the alternator by field shutdown and or spike protection. Isn’t complex and is s good idea anyway , let’s do it right first time.

I have at the last count 8 LiFePO4 being used in the boat !!!

Talking at METS there will be a slew of new products in this area soon but at “ marine prices “ this will in lfp drop ins with interconnected bms , new alternator protection ( Sterling have a very sophisticated one coming out, see the alternator Linearisation Device ) devices and stacks of marine bms with fancy telemetry and of course fancy pricing

Quality marine LFP to latest standards is going to be very expensive imho.

Best approach if your charging via Dino juice is a generator and big shore charger. Not propulsion engine purely for charging. As your main charging source Makes no sense.
I have a 3200 yanmar air cooled diesel genset. Will easily run my 120 amp shore charger twice over. And that would be much more efficient than any alternator setup and a lot simpler to . But none of this is germane to this threads purpose.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by newhaul

Best approach if your charging via Dino juice is a generator and big shore charger. Not propulsion engine purely for charging. As your main charging source Makes no sense.

I have a 3200 yanmar air cooled diesel genset. Will easily run my 120 amp shore charger twice over. And that would be much more efficient than any alternator setup and a lot simpler to . But none of this is germane to this threads purpose.

Yes but suggesting I install a second engine is hardly useful

Connecting ones alternator to a LFp set isn’t rocket science. Equaling protecting same alt from rocket science either.

We need to love to properly designed system wide solutions not solutions cobbled together on fag paper and built with tobacco tin electronics.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by newhaul

Just need a simple audible when it reaches set high voltage point . Not needed just makes It align with ABYC E13 recommendations.
Not worth the cost of the victron unit . To me .

Read it again, why do you ignore this: “visual and/or audible”. The $30 monitor complies, as do the $14 models.

and/or means you don’t have to have audible if you have visual.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Read it again, why do you ignore this: “visual and/or audible”. The $30 monitor complies, as do the $14 models.

and/or means you don’t have to have audible if you have visual.

I stated I ( me ) I need an audible settable high voltage alarm and no as I read the specs it does not provide either a visual nor audible alarm condition . ( unless I'm missing something)
I can look at my bm to see the voltage but that is not an alarm.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by newhaul

I stated I ( me ) I need an audible settable high voltage alarm and no as I read the specs it does not provide either a visual nor audible alarm condition . ( unless I'm missing something)
I can look at my bm to see the voltage but that is not an alarm.

I see what you write now, but I was commenting on your post #197 when you said the opposite, namely:

Which would then make my setup acceptable to the ABYC.

Then, when I showed my solution would provide this, you simply changed your conditions in order to keep arguing for your solution which apparently doesn’t exist outside Victron equipment which you “don’t do”.

It’s fine, arguing is good for forum income

[tanglewood]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

They changed the E-13 recommendation (they don’t publish standards) without updating the final draft?! That’s daft!

I think I have E-13 somewhere as well, need to replace it in my work folder.

The final draft of E-13 went out for public review, just like all ABYC standards.

[tanglewood]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

It no different

It's actually quite different, as we see with this particular point about alerting.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by tanglewood

It's actually quite different, as we see with this particular point about alerting.

Sorry but you can’t discuss this with us because we don’t have it yet.

I will hold further comments on E-13 until someone send me the published document and I studied it. I, like some others here, am retired and don’t have professional access to these documents so we rely on people leaking them to us. I have everything except this one.

If someone has this pdf for me, please email it to me (click my name in the post)

[tanglewood]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Sorry but you can’t discuss this with us because we don’t have it yet.

I will hold further comments on E-13 until someone send me the published document and I studied it. I, like some others here, am retired and don’t have professional access to these documents so we rely on people leaking them to us. I have everything except this one.

If someone has this pdf for me, please email it to me (click my name in the post)

I'll happily continue to discuss it, and you can rejoin when you have the actual standard. I'm also not sure why it's incumbent on others to get it for you. I too am retired and don't have professional access. Like all standards except for IETF (as far as I know), one has to pay for them, so I buy the ones that I need. ABYC membership isn't prohibitive, and gets you access to all of them.


It's just a little alarming to see a 222 post thread on making a BMS ABYC compliant when nobody participating actually has the standard in front of them.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

I see what you write now, but I was commenting on your post #197 when you said the opposite, namely:



Then, when I showed my solution would provide this, you simply changed your conditions in order to keep arguing for your solution which apparently doesn’t exist outside Victron equipment which you “don’t do”.

It’s fine, arguing is good for forum income

Let's go back to post 194 shall we . Where i specifically posted the following
Quote. " That being said I have been searching for a high voltage audible alarm that doesn't cost 200 bucks but can't find one . All seem to just be concerned with low voltage. .
__________________. " end quote.

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ml#post3710462

My statement in 197 would be seen as a follow on comment not a change of direction .

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by tanglewood

I'll happily continue to discuss it, and you can rejoin when you have the actual standard. I'm also not sure why it's incumbent on others to get it for you. I too am retired and don't have professional access. Like all standards except for IETF (as far as I know), one has to pay for them, so I buy the ones that I need. ABYC membership isn't prohibitive, and gets you access to all of them.

It's just a little alarming to see a 222 post thread on making a BMS ABYC compliant when nobody participating actually has the standard in front of them.

I have no benefit in buying these recommendations (they are not code and while they call them standards, this is only within the limited scope of ABYC) because all I use them for is help people on this forum for free. I don’t mind spending a little of my time for this, but spending money is a step too far.

So what use do you have for them?

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by newhaul

Let's go back to post 194 shall we . Where i specifically posted the following
Quote. " That being said I have been searching for a high voltage audible alarm that doesn't cost 200 bucks but can't find one . All seem to just be concerned with low voltage. .
__________________. " end quote.

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ml#post3710462

My statement in 197 would be seen as a follow on comment not a change of direction .

Why do you leave out the first part… which you reference to with “that being said…”. I bet you do because this was about you not abiding to ABYC and in that context, the “that being said I’ll do so and so” means that it is to stay closer to ABYC recommendations and this is further emphasized in your post 197.

Now you say it’s just what you want, period. Fine, go get it