Making a cheap BMS ABYC compliant

[goboatingnow]

Then again nick you also don’t read my posts fully

I’m against direct electrical paralleling of chemistries , end of story , but permanent wiring or via relays.

I’m happy with dc dc isolation of the chemistries either direction. I order alternator to lithium as it’s the most efficient use of the alternator but I except each dc dc direction over any physical paralleling

I don’t worry about unexpected have cutoff. The BMS has to be working to enact cut off , hence it can control alternator disconnect

It’s also entirely entirely feasible to implement alternator protection from unexpected load dumps. Every car manages it.

[RaymondR]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

That’s simple “ name calling “ in my book

It implies that you don't understand what the term "inherent" means, which one may or may not perceive as a challenge, but is not really name calling.

[wholybee]

Something I am exploring, which would be ideal, in my opinion if it is possible.
The overkill solar BMS (and I think also the Daly) allows a configurable protection delay. Normally set to 2 seconds. My intention is to set this to 1 minute, then use an Arduino to monitor the BMS for an overvoltage or undervoltage event via the UART port. The Arduino could then alarm, stop charging, stop the alternator, etc. before the protection activates.

Unfortunately, I don't have a spare overkill solar BMS and cells to play with right now. But if I get it working, I hope to build a fairly simple almost plug-in-plug module to make an overkill solar BMS ABYC compliant.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

It implies that you don't understand what the term "inherent" means, which one may or may not perceive as a challenge, but is not really name calling.

I reported it anyway

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by wholybee

Something I am exploring, which would be ideal, in my opinion if it is possible.
The overkill solar BMS (and I think also the Daly) allows a configurable protection delay. Normally set to 2 seconds. My intention is to set this to 1 minute, then use an Arduino to monitor the BMS for an overvoltage or undervoltage event via the UART port. The Arduino could then alarm, stop charging, stop the alternator, etc. before the protection activates.

Unfortunately, I don't have a spare overkill solar BMS and cells to play with right now. But if I get it working, I hope to build a fairly simple almost plug-in-plug module to make an overkill solar BMS ABYC compliant.

I don’t think we should as DIYers get fixated on ABYC or ISO largely because these specifications are not germane to us and it’s unlikely insurers will accept diy anyway ABYC compliant or not.

Hence a better approach is to engineer a better BMS rather then a “ compliant one “

Nicks idea of using the disconnect then alarming on it , delaying it and then activating the disconnect is “ an approach “ of course the delay may do damage. If the disconnect reason was serious I’d have some concerns.

Equally how much delay is a delay, 30 secs , 1min 5 min

My own view is a good bms shoujd

(A) provide a series of SOC based alarms to warn you you are consuming a serious percentage of SOC.

(B) give very short warnings once HVE , LVE over temp is reached , probably 10 secs. Alarms should occur well before HVE as in my view charge stop voltage should be appreciably below HVE

(C) provide no warning on cell over temp but of course rising temps compensated for ambient should trigger separate alarms.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

I reported it anyway

You are reporting that?! Man, you were telling me to relax, look at this!

When I think I got a golden idea and post it on a forum, everyone has the right to completely kill and ridicule my idea. Nothing like that is a personal attack, to the contrary, I should be ready to defend it with arguments good enough to win that debate.

If one doesn’t want to read anything going against their ideas then post them on some blog with comments disabled, not on a public discussion forum.

Just so that everyone knows: I only report things that I am not involved in, you can write anything against my ideas. Just don’t do personal attacks instead of bringing good arguments to the table.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

I don’t think we should as DIYers get fixated on ABYC or ISO largely because these specifications are not germane to us and it’s unlikely insurers will accept diy anyway ABYC compliant or not.

Hence a better approach is to engineer a better BMS rather then a “ compliant one “

Nicks idea of using the disconnect then alarming on it , delaying it and then activating the disconnect is “ an approach “ of course the delay may do damage. If the disconnect reason was serious I’d have some concerns.

Equally how much delay is a delay, 30 secs , 1min 5 min

My own view is a good bms shoujd

(A) provide a series of SOC based alarms to warn you you are consuming a serious percentage of SOC.

(B) give very short warnings once HVE , LVE over temp is reached , probably 10 secs. Alarms should occur well before HVE as in my view charge stop voltage should be appreciably below HVE

(C) provide no warning on cell over temp but of course rising temps compensated for ambient should trigger separate alarms.

I 100% agree with that, but there are hundreds or thousands of cruisers with drop in batteries that are not compliant, incl. expensive ones like Battleborn and then there’s many more with diy batteries with DalyBMS that are now non compliant as well and what I try to do with this thread is help them come up with ideas that fit what they have or what they can afford.

Every option in this thread incl. the ArgoFET is a compromise, but they are solid options that work even with drop-ins that have no external communication at all.

This thread is about trying to help those folks, not telling them how it ought to be done; there are enough threads for that.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

I 100% agree with that, but there are hundreds or thousands of cruisers with drop in batteries that are not compliant, incl. expensive ones like Battleborn and then there’s many more with diy batteries with DalyBMS that are now non compliant as well and what I try to do with this thread is help them come up with ideas that fit what they have or what they can afford.

Every option in this thread incl. the ArgoFET is a compromise, but they are solid options that work even with drop-ins that have no external communication at all.

This thread is about trying to help those folks, not telling them how it ought to be done; there are enough threads for that.

Very few people are going to knock together an Ardunio or something to make it compliant. So not sure who you are aiming at.

The drop in boys will have ABYC and iso compliant batteries. I know Victron are well on the way as are mastervokt

The future is not cell by cell batteries

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Very few people are going to knock together an Ardunio or something to make it compliant. So not sure who you are aiming at.

The drop in boys will have ABYC and iso compliant batteries. I know Victron are well on the way as are mastervokt

The future is not cell by cell batteries

Well we'll you just hit the nail on the head and bet you don't even realise it .

All about money and profits .

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

I 100% agree with that, but there are hundreds or thousands of cruisers with drop in batteries that are not compliant, incl. expensive ones like Battleborn and then there’s many more with diy batteries with DalyBMS that are now non compliant as well and what I try to do with this thread is help them come up with ideas that fit what they have or what they can afford.

Every option in this thread incl. the ArgoFET is a compromise, but they are solid options that work even with drop-ins that have no external communication at all.

This thread is about trying to help those folks, not telling them how it ought to be done; there are enough threads for that.

There are simple high voltage and low voltage alarms that can be placed inline with a bms that are adjustable and cost under 15 bucks .

Google and eBay are your friends .

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Very few people are going to knock together an Ardunio or something to make it compliant. So not sure who you are aiming at.

The drop in boys will have ABYC and iso compliant batteries. I know Victron are well on the way as are mastervokt

The future is not cell by cell batteries

This thread explains how to do this without Arduino’s. Another forum member even reported that he had set it up like I described and it worked like a charm. That’s what it is about.

Not sure if you realize that I described how to connect a couple of relays, resistor and capacitor to a standard Daly BMS to make it work. May be you would join me in helping others and draw the diagram?

Do you realize that I have nothing to gain with this and do it in an effort to help people free of charge? It’s obvious I don’t need to hack a DalyBMS for myself. You come to every thread I start and start bashing instead of helping people, or describe how you are designing systems that will hit the market soon.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by newhaul

Well we'll you just hit the nail on the head and bet you don't even realise it .



All about money and profits .

Of course but ultimately the marine industry has to develop and supply a reliable , understandable and compliant system.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

This thread explains how to do this without Arduino’s. Another forum member even reported that he had set it up like I described and it worked like a charm. That’s what it is about.



Not sure if you realize that I described how to connect a couple of relays, resistor and capacitor to a standard Daly BMS to make it work. May be you would join me in helping others and draw the diagram?



Do you realize that I have nothing to gain with this and do it in an effort to help people free of charge? It’s obvious I don’t need to hack a DalyBMS for myself. You come to every thread I start and start bashing instead of helping people, or describe how you are designing systems that will hit the market soon.

No I was making the valid point

(A) diy electronics is never going to be accepted as ABYC compliant by anyone in the position to insist on it.

(b) most people have no idea what to do with resistors capacitors and relays beyond a few “ techy “ types.

I merely suggesting who’s your solution aimed at. I would suggest the industry should ( and will ) provide compliant system in time. Unlike you it seems I’m close to several of these and I know what they are working on.

Ultimately LFP needs compliant drop in off the shelf solutions well engineered and standards compliant. Then this “ home brewed “ phase can end and average sailors can commission these systems comfortable in the knowledge they are safe and functional.

And Nick loose the “ god complex “ it’s not helping your argument. I’m entitled to disect your proposal

And again you misrepresent what I do for a number of oem companies I don’t personally release commercial products nor have I ever said i do.

If you want uncritical adulation a social media forum is not the place for you.

[goboatingnow]

My point is that I would contend that diy mods carried out by questionable competency of a commercial cheap BMS is more then likely to introduce problems then cure any dubious “ compatibility “ claims

In the unlikely event someone investigates, it’s unlikely such diy “ compliance” will convince anyone.

Hence the premise is flawed.

No doubt the industry will release ABYC and ISO compliant BMS units in the near enough future , I know REC beleive theirs is compliant.

Hence I think a wait and see attitude to see where the “ drop in “ market goes over the next 6 months as the supply chain takes on board the new standards and the insurance begin to hopefully see some sense on LFP.

[RaymondR]

How about this.

We use an alternator which has a battery voltage sensing terminal on the regulator and tie it into the lithium + terminal and use diodes to adjust tbe voltage sensed by the regulator. Then use large diodes in the LA battery charging circuit to suppress the max charging voltage. LA and lithium are charged in parallel and the BMS is left standard.