Should I change my Lifepo4 to a less safe lithium tech like all my other batteries?

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Chotu

All my power tools are LiFePO4 powered. Through the main inverter

I stick to that approach as well. Power tools on the boat tend to see infrequent use, so corded tools are a good fit. And it's less batteries to worry about. The only stuff on the boat with its own lithium batteries are laptops, cell phones, and a handheld VHF.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Fuss

And you won’t feel guilty either, because you are part of the problem and not the solution… you’ll find a reason to justify just like you always do…comments likes yours are cheap , they are always easy to make but finding solutions are harder.

Told you the solution, throw away the lithium powered stuff you are so scared of. I sure am not stopping you.

[jordanbigel]

Originally Posted by Statistical

The solution is don't have any battery powered gear onboard. Done. "Problem" solved. Now how many boats each year burn down due to battery fires from portable electronics. Can't find anything to suggest it is a lot but you are now safe from it.

I am aware of only one, and it was a doozy. M/V Conception. 34 dead.

One of the surviving crew members theorized the fire may have started in the salon of the ship, where cellphones and cameras had been plugged in to charge overnight. ... The sheer number of devices charging at once may have overloaded circuits, or the devices' lithium-ion batteries may have overloaded
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_MV_Conception

Lesson learned: Do not leave a large number of portable lithium devices charging at the same time. To be even safer, unplug portable lithium battery chargers once batteries are charged fully.

I do not think this example is especially relevant for the average cruising boat.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

I stick to that approach as well. Power tools on the boat tend to see infrequent use, so corded tools are a good fit. And it's less batteries to worry about. The only stuff on the boat with its own lithium batteries are laptops, cell phones, and a handheld VHF.

same here. Aside from the safety factor, it’s just nice not to have to deal with all of those batteries. Much more simple to just plug a tool in and use it forever.

[Fuss]

I just found this on this forum

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...re-273783.html
The fire looks terrible and its a bit of a wakeup, I did not analyse why, perhaps salt water got in and caused a short.

I also found this... https://safetowork.com.au/fires-on-b...ools-increase/
I think that cordless tools need more respect from the sailing community. You can look at the comments above from a few members on here that do not care but like to make smart comments even though I am fairly sure they have cordless tools onboard their own boats.
If just one boat is saved by making sailors more aware, its worth it right.
Perhaps these tools need to be stored in safer places, at least not near other objects that they could catch on fire.

[ChrisJHC]

It’s probably the way you phrased the original question that is drawing the comments.

You specifically asked whether you should change out your LiFeP04 to a less safe lithium technology.

Maybe if you’d asked whether cruisers should be concerned about less-safe lithium technology in their other devices you might have got different responses.

Oh, and to answer your question, in my opinion, you should not change your LiFePO4 to a less safe lithium technology.

[Fuss]

"It’s probably the way you phrased the original question that is drawing the comments."
Yes thats right

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Fuss

I just found this on this forum

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...re-273783.html
The fire looks terrible and its a bit of a wakeup, I did not analyse why, perhaps salt water got in and caused a short.

I also found this... https://safetowork.com.au/fires-on-b...ools-increase/
I think that cordless tools need more respect from the sailing community. You can look at the comments above from a few members on here that do not care but like to make smart comments even though I am fairly sure they have cordless tools onboard their own boats.
If just one boat is saved by making sailors more aware, its worth it right.
Perhaps these tools need to be stored in safer places, at least not near other objects that they could catch on fire.

The 2 biggest safety improvements that can be made for most tools with lithium batteries are to be careful about where you store them (try to avoid really hot locations and avoid storing them somewhere that another object could shift and puncture or damage the battery). And where you charge them. Outside of external physical damage, charging is the time of highest risk. So ideally, don't charge them unattended, and charge them somewhere that you'd notice them getting hot before they'd actually set something on fire around them. And have a plan for getting a battery contained and submerged in water if one does ever fail catastrophically.

[Statistical]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

The 2 biggest safety improvements that can be made for most tools with lithium batteries are to be careful about where you store them (try to avoid really hot locations and avoid storing them somewhere that another object could shift and puncture or damage the battery). And where you charge them. Outside of external physical damage, charging is the time of highest risk. So ideally, don't charge them unattended, and charge them somewhere that you'd notice them getting hot before they'd actually set something on fire around them. And have a plan for getting a battery contained and submerged in water if one does ever fail catastrophically.

and don't buy knockoff Chinese chargers to save $3.18 and burn down your $300,000 boat (or $300,000 house or $50,000 car).

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Statistical

and don't buy knockoff Chinese chargers to save $3.18 and burn down your $300,000 boat (or $300,000 house or $50,000 car).

Um.... All chargers are made in China and all batteries.

[Statistical]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Um.... All chargers are made in China and all batteries.

Keyword being knockoff. Big brands will have chargers built to the specs they mandate. Golden Lion or ChangeWon charger sold on Amazon by a shell company that won't exist in two years won't. If they can save a nickle and build something close but unsafe they will.

At the very least if your Apple or Anker phone charger does ignite due to manufacturing or design defect you have a pretty good contingency based liability lawsuit to recover damages. Good luck finding the real owner of ChangeWon or Anoprev and recovering damages.

[qwert]

Actually there was a decent sized Bavaria lost when his drill batteries caught fire after being bounced around in a bunk I think it was about 4 yrs ago. There was quite an extensive thread about it at the time

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by Chotu

All my power tools are LiFePO4 powered. Through the main inverter

Extension cords and 120v are also hazardous. I believe that battery tools are safer overall, mainly because of the reduced tripping and entanglement risk.

[japawil]

https://youtube.com/watch?v=9tLJpzokrYY&feature=share

This is a sobering account of a relevant incident.

[Adelie]

This discussion goes to the heart of cost-benefit analysis.
Does the item under consideration provide sufficient benefit to warrant the costs and risks of having it. Are alternatives better or worse.

The direct cost of purchasing a Li-ion battery is pretty straight forward, what did you pay to buy it?

What are the risks? Catches fire which puts the whole boat at risk.

Propane also is a fire risk and even an explosion risk. People choose to continue to have propane aboard for cooking and mitigate the risk through various means though they can't completely eliminate the risk.

Some people choose to use different means to cook food to eliminate that risk. The alternatives introduce different risks.

There are alternatives to regular Li-ion batteries. Corded tools, LFP batteries, NiMH batteries. They all have different risks.

Corded tools have a different set of risks, tripping hazard, increased risk of electrocution compared to battery tools, still some risk of fire.

LFP batteries don't seem to be available for cordless tools, the decreased capacity and minor change in cost are not economically viable so they aren't made in any significant quantity.

NiMH batteries also have fire risks, at a different level than Li-ion but it is not quantified. Also, tools using these batteries are becoming scarce.

There are videos showing the fires that results from Li-ion tools. It's a new technology and these are concerning. But there are no discussions about what the level of risk is compared to other technologies we accept and live with.