Victron MPPT switches on when Non-inverting cable gets disconnected, possible change

[CaptainRivet]

Hi All,

I have 3x Victron MPPT 50/100 and Electrodacus BMS controls them via non-inverting remote cable. If the non-inverting cable disconnects from the MPPT (happens easy as the plug sits very loose) the MPPT shuts on and starts charging and could pontentially damage the battery bank.
Is it possible to change this behaviour so if non inverting remote cable is/gets disconnected the MPPT shuts off.
Thats a real security hazard. I would glue them in+support with cable straps so that cannot easly happen anymore but still the cable could get cut by something flying around and the MPPT would start charging. Really bad design Victron if that cannot be changed.
As in Victron Forum already and no answer but maybe the experienced Victron users/installers know…
Thank you.
Christian

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

Hi All,

I have 3x Victron MPPT 50/100 and Electrodacus BMS controls them via non-inverting remote cable. If the non-inverting cable disconnects from the MPPT (happens easy as the plug sits very loose) the MPPT shuts on and starts charging and could pontentially damage the battery bank.
Is it possible to change this behaviour so if non inverting remote cable is/gets disconnected the MPPT shuts off.
Thats a real security hazard. I would glue them in+support with cable straps so that cannot easly happen anymore but still the cable could get cut by something flying around and the MPPT would start charging. Really bad design Victron if that cannot be changed.

Thank you.
Christian

A few tie wraps usually sorts it

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

A few tie wraps usually sorts it

Still the risk of the remote cable getting interrupted…very bad design for a top of the line product from Victron plus it’s 300 and another 40 for the cable…
On the blacklist from now…problem I need to find a different manufacturer/product..
Getting slowly very pissed with Victron products…not acceptable for their premium price point and reputation…
Shortcomings of DC2DC, Phönix smart charger being an induction stove, now the MPPT remote issue…

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

Still the risk of the remote cable getting interrupted…very bad design for a top of the line product from Victron plus it’s 300 and another 40 for the cable…
On the blacklist from now…problem I need to find a different manufacturer/product..
Getting slowly very pissed with Victron products…not acceptable for their premium price point and reputation…
Shortcomings of DC2DC, Phönix smart charger being an induction stove, now the MPPT remote issue…

I have the remotes cable connected yes the connector can get a little loose but after a few cable ties it’s never moved

[MerMike]

If the controllers are configured properly they will charge at the desired voltages regardless of their connection to the GX device. What you lose is the shared voltage provided by the shunt and GX device, so the battery bank voltage as measured by the controllers will be more or less accurate depending on voltage drop between the controllers and the battery bank. You could adjust the parameters in the controllers to account for this difference.

Tie-wraps, cable clamps or a hot glue gun to secure the VE-Direct cable are pretty much SOP.

[Cheyne]

I put a zip tie and a dab of hot glue on each of mine. I haven't had a problem with them.

Cheyne

[smac999]

I have never used that cable. but it says it should work...

https://www.victronenergy.com/access...e-on-off-cable

"The charger will be enabled when the signal on the cable is high. The charger is disabled when the source signal is pulled low or left free floating."

actually that problem means if the yellow cable is floating.. as a solar controller doesn't needs a ve direct cable to function.

so just glue the ve plugs in I guess.


I guess the other option is to run the controllers into a battery protect, and then shut the battery protect off from the bms instead. but the soft shutdown on the controller is better.

That would free up the ve direct ports to run to a cerbo

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by MerMike

If the controllers are configured properly they will charge at the desired voltages regardless of their connection to the GX device. What you lose is the shared voltage provided by the shunt and GX device, so the battery bank voltage as measured by the controllers will be more or less accurate depending on voltage drop between the controllers and the battery bank. You could adjust the parameters in the controllers to account for this difference.

Tie-wraps, cable clamps or a hot glue gun to secure the VE-Direct cable are pretty much SOP.

What I loose is my control via BMS, potentially overcharge bank. Not acceptable
Take a 200aH 24V bank of grade B cells and cycle it strongly with 0.7C and your bank will be dead soon due to overcharge as the MPPT just sees total voltage but not a cell running away while another stay low…

Zip-tie and hot glue….yes for a 100Euro MPPT but not 300+40Euro=340Euro for a 50A one.

So it looks like this behavior cannot be changed, victron MPPT blacklisted for me. Problem is I have MPPT 3x50A and 1x30A already….
They will charge what they measure not what the cells in the bank have…so no check via Cerro GX and BMS possible.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by smac999

I have never used that cable. but it says it should work...

https://www.victronenergy.com/access...e-on-off-cable

"The charger will be enabled when the signal on the cable is high. The charger is disabled when the source signal is pulled low or left free floating."

actually that problem means if the yellow cable is floating.. as a solar controller doesn't needs a ve direct cable to function.

so just glue the ve plugs in I guess.


I guess the other option is to run the controllers into a battery protect, and then shut the battery protect off from the bms instead. but the soft shutdown on the controller is better.

That would free up the ve direct ports to run to a cerbo

What you mention is when remote cable is connected but if the VE.direct plug at the MPPT disconnects that expensive top of the line MPPT shut on and charge
Industry stand is switch off if nothing connected or connection gets lost…

My Electrodacus BMS needs the VE port to shut on/off the charge. So yes the VE-Port is necessary that the MPPT is functioning properly with any proper BMS that controls the charge sources based on cell data.
That’s why I asked in another thread if I can DIY a VE.direct Y-cable as Victron is not offering one and it seems nobody tried making one themself to run remote for BMS control and Cerbo in parallel.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by Cheyne

I put a zip tie and a dab of hot glue on each of mine. I haven't had a problem with them.

Cheyne

You will realize when bank is dead because that lovely remote cable got disconnected and the MPPT overcharged the bank…Simply a security hazard and due to Our lovely new standards for lithium that Victron MPPTs must be banned.
That’s again standing nowhere in the specs or and handbook…

[MerMike]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

What I loose is my control via BMS, potentially overcharge bank. Not acceptable Take a 200aH 24V bank of grade B cells and cycle it strongly with 0.7C and your bank will be dead soon due to overcharge as the MPPT just sees total voltage but not a cell running away while another stay low…

Not true. If the BMS is working, the cells stay in balance. If the BMS fails to keep up, you get a disconnect, but the MPPT controllers are not the cause, not would they continue to charge after a disconnect. If the MPPT controllers are properly programmed the cells don't get overcharged. Since it's a concern for you, allow some headroom on the charging voltages.

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

Zip-tie and hot glue….yes for a 100Euro MPPT but not 300+40Euro=340Euro for a 50A one.

So buy something else.

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

So it looks like this behavior cannot be changed, victron MPPT blacklisted for me. Problem is I have MPPT 3x50A and 1x30A already….

That's what ebay is for.

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

They will charge what they measure not what the cells in the bank have…so no check via Cerro GX and BMS possible.

You're overthinking this. Once again, lower the charging voltages on the controllers to prevent such an occurance as a failsafe, since you're worried about corner cases in the first place. It solves the problem you posted, not the one you have with Victron. Take that up with your dealer. Nobody here can help you with that.

[alctel]

Mine is set so if there is a cerbo failure the charge points on the mppts etc are so low it basically disables charging

If you want to sell your Victron mppts I'll take them, send me a PM. I need a couple extra ones.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by MerMike

Not true. If the BMS is working, the cells stay in balance. If the BMS fails to keep up, you get a disconnect, but the MPPT controllers are not the cause, not would they continue to charge after a disconnect. If the MPPT controllers are properly programmed the cells don't get overcharged. Since it's a concern for you, allow some headroom on the charging voltages.



So buy something else.



That's what ebay is for.



You're overthinking this. Once again, lower the charging voltages on the controllers to prevent such an occurance as a failsafe, since you're worried about corner cases in the first place. It solves the problem you posted, not the one you have with Victron. Take that up with your dealer. Nobody here can help you with that.

Have a look at how the Electrodacus BMS works:
https://electrodacus.com/
A bit different then most other, very smart as I don’t have problems a lot other have and No if the remote disconnects the BMS cannot do anything except of an Desaster shut-off everything as last resort. That’s why I get top of line Victron expecting they are top of the line which they aren’t. That remote functionality is test by R&D and factory and much saver then own developed shut offs on high amp side with expensive blue system relays that aren‘ tested in your config.

The parameters in the MPPT are the 2nd last borderline and I have them already at 14,4 but one cell at 3,7 and the other at 3,4V still makes less then 14,4V= no shut off and that’s getting worse if you have a 24V system which I plan to switch to. Lowering that will interfere with the BMS as charge not complete but MPPT shuts off.

If you can tell me an 50A MPPT that can be shut off via remote, then I maybe put the Victrons on eBay…

[smac999]

Buy a 220a battery protect

Run ve direct cables to cerbo

Use the bms to turn the battery protect on / off.

https://www.victronenergy.com/upload...-Tr-Smarts.pdf

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by smac999

Buy a 220a battery protect

Run ve direct cables to cerbo

Use the bms to turn the battery protect on / off.

https://www.victronenergy.com/upload...-Tr-Smarts.pdf

Throwing more money after Victron for something that should be in their top of the line product anyhow
BP known for dying and not very reliable, the remote is very reliable as tested extensively by Victron.
I first try the 5 Euro solution and DIY an Y-cable for VE direct, don‘t see why this should not working. If it does I glue it in with hg superglue as I then have 2 connectors, one for cerbo and one for Electrodacus where. I will cut the connector off and directly connect the remote cable.