Australia becoming a safe haven for Pacific cruisers.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by ausnp84

Just ignore DP.. it’s the second time we’ve had an ignorant American on here slate Australia while forgetting how much of a sh*t show their country is. Some of them truly are a special breed![emoji849]

Back to the OP, I don’t believe Australia does have a “duty of care to allow this safe haven”. Borders are shut. Closed. The Government is protecting the Australian population. Travel is not allowed. If they open travel to one bunch of tourists (cruisers), they have to allow other tourists. Cruisers have had months to make alternative plans for the South Pacific cyclone season. Putting pressure on Aus to lift their lockdown down because you’ve not thought ahead and made plans isn’t really their issue....

N

No,opening for one bunch doesn't mean they have to open for others, as explained, flying from LA isnt the same as sailing across the Pacific, non comparable in many ways, including risk to Australias health.

Also regarding "they've had mths to plan?" Yachts move slowly, this isnt like just hopping on a plane , it dosent work like that, I've done 7,000nm this year averaging just over 6kts not 900kts!. I have friends sailing direct from Panama, they've been held up for 2 mths due to unexpected repairs, they have been planning for mths. I had friends trapped in Curacao, they wanted to leave earlier but couldn't, also in Panama, remember the canal closed for yachts for a while....theres alot more to it than just "they had mths to plan"

I have other friends sailing solo huge distances because their wive's weren't allowed to fly out to rejoin them, was this nessacary?, not to mention very few places to stop.

Many have no options in regards to leaving their boats, theres just no spots eg French Polynesia, yet they cant stay due to visas, what do they do? also flights are getting harder, level four lockdowns in New Zealand just effected Australian flights from Fiji, its also very unknown if people can get back to their boats next year.

It's easy to judge from the comfort of home, my point is let's have a think about this unique group, dont just rope them into people just wanting to get home, way up the risks realistically and put a protocol in place to minimize them further, it's not hard.

[GILow]

I have to admit to a sense of NIMBY.

Of course, as previously noted, South Australia is probably the last place they’d come to anyway.

But my previous warm-welcome-open-arms attitude is slowly crumbling in the face of the unspeakable selfishness and stupidity of a minority. And yes, it is a minority, it the problem with this highly transmissible bug is that it only takes a minority to create a calamity.

As much as I’d love to say “Welcome travellers!”, the words stick in my throat and I am unable to utter them with sincerity.

Perhaps another victim of this wretched bug is my previously hard core Australian Egalitarianism. RIP Eg.

[GILow]

I have to admit to a sense of NIMBY.

Of course, as previously noted, South Australia is probably the last place they’d come to anyway.

But my previous warm-welcome-open-arms attitude is slowly crumbling in the face of the unspeakable selfishness and stupidity of a minority. And yes, it is a minority, however that is the problem with this highly transmissible bug: it only takes a minority to create a calamity.

As much as I’d love to say “Welcome travellers!”, the words stick in my throat and I am unable to utter them with sincerity.

Perhaps another victim of this wretched bug is my previously hard core Australian Egalitarianism. RIP Eg.

[ausnp84]

Originally Posted by daletournier

No,opening for one bunch doesn't mean they have to open for others, as explained, flying from LA isnt the same as sailing across the Pacific, non comparable in many ways, including risk to Australias health.

Also regarding "they've had mths to plan?" Yachts move slowly, this isnt like just hopping on a plane , it dosent work like that, I've done 7,000nm this year averaging just over 6kts not 900kts!. I have friends sailing direct from Panama, they've been held up for 2 mths due to unexpected repairs, they have been planning for mths. I had friends trapped in Curacao, they wanted to leave earlier but couldn't, also in Panama, remember the canal closed for yachts for a while....theres alot more to it than just "they had mths to plan"

I have other friends sailing solo huge distances because their wive's weren't allowed to fly out to rejoin them, was this nessacary?, not to mention very few places to stop.

Many have no options in regards to leaving their boats, theres just no spots eg French Polynesia, yet they cant stay due to visas, what do they do? also flights are getting harder, level four lockdowns in New Zealand just effected Australian flights from Fiji, its also very unknown if people can get back to their boats next year.

It's easy to judge from the comfort of home, my point is let's have a think about this unique group, dont just rope them into people just wanting to get home, way up the risks realistically and put a protocol in place to minimize them further, it's not hard.

It’s an impossible situation. Opening the country for cruisers while not allowing people to fly into the country to visit sick relatives? It just won’t fly with the general populace.

A lot of people were indeed stuck in Panama, Curacao and the Carib until the Canal opened... and a lot of them stayed put as Aus shut early in the year and there was a colossal risk they’d be stuck in the South Pacific come cyclone season. Saying they’d planned for months - hell some of us have been planning for years to cast off but this was just never going to be the year to do it.

I would love for common sense to be at the forefront and for there to be an easy solution (I had a similar argument last year / pre-Covid about sailing direct to Aus with my dog to work around the draconian quarantine laws) but I just can’t see it happening. Cruisers / boaters are seen by many as a minority gallavanting around during a pretty sh*tty time and they’re going to struggle to get any sympathy from the masses or emergency lockdown laws changed by foreign governments. For the time being, I cannot see Aus opening and it’s going to be a case of staying put / finding somewhere close that’s as safe as possible and just riding out the season.

N

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

just get them to rent property on land like these students that are missed so severely. Guaranteed, every politician will understand this language as they controlled by property lobby.

Yes, students are a bunch that are allowed in therefore all should be allowed in, right?

[ausnp84]

Originally Posted by GILow

I have to admit to a sense of NIMBY.

I’m with you mate. My folks are family are all in Adelaide (dad’s recovering from a lung cancer op) and while SA is doing a great job of keeping the infection rate low, I’m keen to see the borders shut.

Here in the UK it was all wide open until the start of June, and only for the past two months have they been quarantining people (14 days at home)... the infection rate’s going to spike again and I’ve no doubt we’ll be locked down soon.

Would I like to get back to SA in November to visit family? Absolutely. But it’s better for them that I stay here for the mo, and that’s exactly what I’m doing.

Until a vaccine is ready or infection rates are negligible, I can’t see Aus (and many countries) opening their borders).

N

[daletournier]

What's NIMBY?

Originally Posted by GILow

I have to admit to a sense of NIMBY.

Of course, as previously noted, South Australia is probably the last place they’d come to anyway.

But my previous warm-welcome-open-arms attitude is slowly crumbling in the face of the unspeakable selfishness and stupidity of a minority. And yes, it is a minority, however that is the problem with this highly transmissible bug: it only takes a minority to create a calamity.

As much as I’d love to say “Welcome travellers!”, the words stick in my throat and I am unable to utter them with sincerity.

Perhaps another victim of this wretched bug is my previously hard core Australian Egalitarianism. RIP Eg.

[atoll]

Originally Posted by daletournier

What's NIMBY?

nimby= not in my back yard (unless it benefits me,then it is okay)

[RaymondR]

I am sympathetic to the folks stuck in cyclone zones because of what I consider unnecessary border closures. However it's almost as bad if you are an Australian citizen wanting or needing to travel within Australia and if you want to go overseas, forget it.

Australians who want to leave Australia for any reason are required to apply for a permit to do so and if refused their identity details are provided to Border Force and they will not allow you on an aircraft.

More horror stories are surfacing on the media as to the problems individuals are having because of all the closures and hopefully the adverse publicity will oblige our leaders to institute better quarantine provisions. With any luck those who are using the pandemic for political purposes will find themselves out of office.

[daletournier]

https://www.sail-worldcruising.com/n...for-safe-haven

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by atoll

nimby= not in my back yard (unless it benefits me,then it is okay)

Thanks atoll, theres a whole new language happening.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by daletournier

Thanks atoll, theres a whole new language happening.

Sorry, I thought everyone knew that one. But bad news, it has its origins as far back as 1980, at least according to Wikipedia.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Uncle Bob

It appears that you are from the US, and you call Australia violent??
Enjoy your cocoon

How thick is the irony...I believe you missed the sarcasm.

As far as the original comment:
- If Australia chooses to let them in, no issues as long as it's their choice.
- If cruisers start demanding it on moral or legal grounds and is pressuring Australia, that's a different ballgame. Travel restrictions started around 6 months ago. Maybe not fun but plenty of time to either find a place to lay up the boat and fly home or plot a course directly home for 99% of cruisers.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by daletournier

https://www.sail-worldcruising.com/n...for-safe-haven

Since I don't know much about your hemisphere, I was going to ask for a bit of a backgrounder on the problem... but that link covered the issue well.

It does seem like a reasonable request (and a win-win business opportunity) that carries little risk. Is there a suitable coastal point that could serve as a landing point, that could be set up with customs, testing and quarantine facilities, so that arriving yachts are vetted and confirmed safe, before being allowed to travel on to other Australian ports?

There could also be some way to drop and store the boat in Australia, then the crew flies home.

The right town might be willing to step up to serve this function, because of the business potential.

[DirtyPigeon]

Originally Posted by Wotname

Crikey DP, you want to brush up on what happens in the USA if a woman simply reports a possible crime by calling 911. Police turn up and shot her dead.

An Australian woman by the way!

Justine Damond https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooti...Justine_Damond

I remember that, according to your own link

“On March 20, 2018, Noor was charged with second-degree manslaughter and third-degree murder. Prosecutors later upgraded the charges against Noor to second-degree intentional murder. In April 2019, Noor was convicted of third-degree murder and manslaughter, but acquitted of intentional second-degree murder. In June 2019, Noor was sentenced to 12.5 years in prison. Damond's family brought a civil lawsuit against the City of Minneapolis alleging violation of Damond's civil rights, which the city settled for $US20 million”


That type of behavior is NOT tolerated, the ex officer is in jail, where I am sure he is being loved tenderly, plus a civil suit was settled for $20,000,000.
NO ONE I heard of tried to defend the actions or Noor, or in the George strangling case, when one of our police acts out of line the citizens toss them to the wolves, which is why I don’t understand why people are so accepting of the very heavy handed government over in Australia.

There was also the man who was locked up in a hotel for “quarantine”, tested negative for Covid, left the hotel and fell victim to a man hunt!

Lots of other people who have had their boats stranded there for a indefinite amount of time, some of them liveaboards

With the other options like Fiji I just don’t get why one would set course for Australia right now?
Leave your boat, fly home for whatever reason and trust them to let you back in? That’s a historic roll of the dice.

What would the appeal of setting course for Australia in this climate be? Shy of having something break and it being the closest port, with the recent activity why would one chose Australia? Serious question.