BVI Announces reopening protocols for Dec 1

[sail4evr]

the tracking app is $150 / person

[sail4evr]

everything is fluid. nothing truly set in stone. depends on who screams the loudest.

[sailoray531]

The BVIs are part of the eastern caribbean travel "bubble" that includes Antigua, Montserrat, Anguilla, among others. If you are on a boat and stay within the bubble, the requirements should be a lot less onerous, once the initial quarantine period is over. Check out noonsite.com for further info. Of course, requirements can change on a dime.

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by bvimatelot

....."
BVI is insane. They are supposed to be a member of CARICOM but it appears their latest rules ignore the fact. It was clear after our last visit that their overlords did not care a tiny bit about their economy or people. Nearly all hurricane relief magically disappeared with almost no positive action. After two years there was no grocery in Jost Van Dyke. Prices for basics out of range for all but the wealthy. Costs and hurdles for customs and immigration, diving, snorkeling and fishing totally random.

Not clear from the OP if CARICOM bubble extends to BVI cruiser traffic or they must also quarantine with multiple tests.

Not true. 1. BVI is NOT a member of CARICOM, it is an ASSOCIATE member.

2. Our "overlords" actually care very much about the people first, then the economy.

Where is your proof for the rather sweeping statement that nearly all the hurricane relief "magically" disappeared?

Tony[/QUOTE]


We passed through with friends who insisted to stop. As usual, entry fees varied wildly with no defined data sheet. Ask for a fee schedule and you may be offered two hours to be out of the BVI. As I noted, still no grocery in Jost. $45 dollar burgers at Foxy’s, much more for a nice dinner. The other beach bars all along Jost were a mere shadow of the former infrastructure. Food was being hauled by pirogue from Sopers Hole where the boat driver rode a taxi to Road Town and back, returning then to Jost. Soper’s was totally unrestored as was North Sound. Customs closed there. Discussion with local folks revealed that they were still waiting for promised relief.

Our impression every time we visited starting in 2016 was that it was good to be a charter operator or customer. Everyone else could please go away. They also by the way have the most expensive moorings in the Caribbean and have them situated in most of the shallow anchoring sites, leaving impossibly deep places for anchoring. The list of petty stuff is very long and many of the other cruisers we know will not go there. We sailed into North Sound in 2016 with a rally of 80 boats. I wondered why most of the repeat cruisers quickly departed for St Martin at first weather. I wonder no more.

BVI is on the list of CARICOM bubble countries according to the ministers here in Antigua.

By the way, Grenada, also on the list is presently withdrawn from the bubble. This just bit our cruising friends traveling north. They intended to stop in Dominica on the way to Antigua but the rules changed while under way. They are denied entry. In today’s crazy, be sure you have a sure destination before leaving any place.

We launch on Friday in Jolly Harbor and plan to become authorities on every possible anchorage around the island. Hoping to put the boat on the hard in Trinidad in June.

[doctorbill]

Any updates on the situation? We have a charter booked first week of March and don't really want to cancel. Just trying to figure out if these requirements will make a charter impossible or just a pain in the butt. Appreciate any input.

[contrail]

Originally Posted by doctorbill

Any updates on the situation? We have a charter booked first week of March and don't really want to cancel. Just trying to figure out if these requirements will make a charter impossible or just a pain in the butt. Appreciate any input.

A lot can change between now and then. My opinion is that it will be a minor pain in the butt.

[contrail]

Tony[/QUOTE]


We passed through with friends who insisted to stop. As usual, entry fees varied wildly with no defined data sheet. Ask for a fee schedule and you may be offered two hours to be out of the BVI. As I noted, still no grocery in Jost. $45 dollar burgers at Foxy’s, much more for a nice dinner. The other beach bars all along Jost were a mere shadow of the former infrastructure. Food was being hauled by pirogue from Sopers Hole where the boat driver rode a taxi to Road Town and back, returning then to Jost. Soper’s was totally unrestored as was North Sound. Customs closed there. Discussion with local folks revealed that they were still waiting for promised relief.


BVI is on the list of CARICOM bubble countries according to the ministers here in Antigua.





BVI is most certainly NOT in the CARICOM bubble. Many of us here wish we were.



As for the other statements, let's be fair: the Customs fees are complicated, but they are, in fact, clearly defined though not often clearly explained. And they are for lots of things and hinge on little things like where you are based, overtime, which covers a surprisingly large portion of the day, National Parks, etc. etc. Mistakes are sometimes made, but everything is spelled out on the receipt that you get. Most people do not understand the fees, (I sometimes have to look them up), and because of that and the fact that it is a small Caribbean country, assume there are shenanigans going on, which is not, or at least very seldom, the case. We often disagree with the theory behind some of the charges, and try to get them changed, at the Government level, but they are, in fact, quite specific. $45 for a hamburger at Foxy's? Funny, I have never paid that. Are you sure you are not including all the beverages that went along? As for hurricane damage, it was a really big hit, but most has been rebuilt. Soper's Hole has re-opened. In North Sound, much work has taken place at Bitter End, and the Sand Box. Biras Creek is under way. Leverick and the Sand Box are fine. I take it that you have not experienced damage like that inflicted by Irma, and have little experience with construction on remote islands?



Yes, there remain plenty of things to be done. A grocery on JVD would be nice. The Government managed so screw up a good bit of the relief funds offered by the Brits. But, as much as anything, in this sort of disaster, it takes a long time to settle with insurance companies (assuming you have insurance), and then a long time to rebuild, when you have only so many qualified (or unqualified) workers, materials need to be shipped in, etc, and the whole country was devastated. Some slack is called for. People come to places like the BVI to enjoy the beauty and the relatively low population and unspoiled nature. So don't expect lots of huge construction companies busy at work building things!

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by contrail

Tony

We passed through with friends who insisted to stop. As usual, entry fees varied wildly with no defined data sheet. Ask for a fee schedule and you may be offered two hours to be out of the BVI. As I noted, still no grocery in Jost. $45 dollar burgers at Foxy’s, much more for a nice dinner. The other beach bars all along Jost were a mere shadow of the former infrastructure. Food was being hauled by pirogue from Sopers Hole where the boat driver rode a taxi to Road Town and back, returning then to Jost. Soper’s was totally unrestored as was North Sound. Customs closed there. Discussion with local folks revealed that they were still waiting for promised relief.


BVI is on the list of CARICOM bubble countries according to the ministers here in Antigua.





BVI is most certainly NOT in the CARICOM bubble. Many of us here wish we were.



As for the other statements, let's be fair: the Customs fees are complicated, but they are, in fact, clearly defined though not often clearly explained. And they are for lots of things and hinge on little things like where you are based, overtime, which covers a surprisingly large portion of the day, National Parks, etc. etc. Mistakes are sometimes made, but everything is spelled out on the receipt that you get. Most people do not understand the fees, (I sometimes have to look them up), and because of that and the fact that it is a small Caribbean country, assume there are shenanigans going on, which is not, or at least very seldom, the case. We often disagree with the theory behind some of the charges, and try to get them changed, at the Government level, but they are, in fact, quite specific. $45 for a hamburger at Foxy's? Funny, I have never paid that. Are you sure you are not including all the beverages that went along? As for hurricane damage, it was a really big hit, but most has been rebuilt. Soper's Hole has re-opened. In North Sound, much work has taken place at Bitter End, and the Sand Box. Biras Creek is under way. Leverick and the Sand Box are fine. I take it that you have not experienced damage like that inflicted by Irma, and have little experience with construction on remote islands?



Yes, there remain plenty of things to be done. A grocery on JVD would be nice. The Government managed so screw up a good bit of the relief funds offered by the Brits. But, as much as anything, in this sort of disaster, it takes a long time to settle with insurance companies (assuming you have insurance), and then a long time to rebuild, when you have only so many qualified (or unqualified) workers, materials need to be shipped in, etc, and the whole country was devastated. Some slack is called for. People come to places like the BVI to enjoy the beauty and the relatively low population and unspoiled nature. So don't expect lots of huge construction companies busy at work building things![/QUOTE]


Customs fees are not complicated, they are whimsical ways to fatten the agent’s wallet. There is no continuity boat to boat or by check in site. In ‘68 our friends ahead of us paid $1.00 at customs, crazy and unexplainable but it happened. We were next in line, $68. We visited USVI for a while and came back, $125. We paid to import the boat, $200. Didn’t change the agent’s cunning thievery. Next entry $140. Our cruising friends, Salty Dawgs, representing 80 boats in the rally that year, asked to see the fee schedule, rate table, (Sopers Hole) was given two hour to leave the territory. If you are a charterer or tourist arriving conventionally by plane at an airport things probably seem pretty regular. If you are a private yacht you have absolutely no idea what the fees will be and how long you might be permitted to stay. Oh, if you want a fishing license just to keep honest, you must go to a special office only on Road Town no matter where you checked in. Mind you, only foreigners need a license so why isn’t this available where you check in? Same is true for a park pass required to use the day moorings in the parks and this is yet another different building in Road Town. God help you if you are accosted by the authorities with an unused rod in a rod holder after your transit, you are obviously fishing.

Takes a long time? The same transit, Martinique, Bonaire, Puerto Rico, USVI, BVI, St Martin, etc to Trinidad we saw near total recovery everywhere but the BVI. We were appalled at the near total lack of recovery by comparison.

[IAmGroot]

Some very positive news today! Reduced cost for tests and tracking systems, plus... confirmation of quarantine allowed on approved vessels!

http://www.virginislandsnewsonline.com/en/news/vi-govt-reduces-cost-of-travel-app-bracelet-covid-19-tests-to-175-total

The processes for charter and dive companies to get "approved" was announced a couple days ago here: https://bvi.gov.vg/media-centre/tourism-reopening-guide-available with the detailed guidance linked off the main document. I have already seen a couple dive shops announce on Facebook that they have completed the needed training - fast work!

I have also heard from my charter co. that the initial quarantine period on vessels will need to be done in bays with no shore structures, exact list TBD. That kinda rules out just about anyplace with mooring balls...we will see.

Overall a step in the right direction.

[contrail]

The Premier and the Minister of Health had a presentation last evening to clarify many of the modifications, followed by quite an informative question and answer session. You can find a replay on the Facebook page for the Government of the Virgin Islands. In summary, visitors or returning nationals, residents, etc, (in other words, everyone), will need a positive PCR test taken within five days of arrival, from low risk countries, and three days of arrival for high risk countries, i.e. places like the US. They will need that test to get permission to arrive, and apply online, as before. Upon arrival, they will be given another PCR test and driven to their destination in Government approved vehicles. These destinations can be on land or boats, approved by the Government. It's not a high bar to get approval. If someone has no approved destination, then they go to a Government approved hotel, and, for the next three months, the Government will pay for lodging, but not meals. When in your approved accommodation, you must keep separate from others not in your group. If on a boat, it can sail and move between different approved locations, which will be places to be designated, in the next few days, with mooring fields. Mega yachts will be handled separately. After four days, another test must be taken, and there will be many locations at which to do this. Since the BVI has a lab that processes the tests, results are done reasonably quickly, in 24 hours or less. If you test positive, you are free to move about, whether afloat or onshore. There is no longer a fourth test required. If, in either test, someone tests positive, they may either repatriate, if possible, or will undergo ten more days in quarantine. Incoming persons will be issued a tracking device and an App, which will serve to monitor movements. The tracking device is returned upon departure. Violations will meet with stiff fines. The tracking device cannot be taken off, but is water proof and you can swim with it. The entire cost of the two tests administered in the BVI, as well as the App and the tracker, is $175. A further test, administered for those who may need such a test to return to their homelands, will be administered for a charge of $70. A public/private sector committee has been formed with the purpose of answering further questions regarding unanticipated situations, although many were covered in the Q&A sessions. I would advise those who are interested in watching the entire presentation.


Most of us here are greatly encouraged by this. Notwithstanding the fact that there is hassle and cost, as is happening in a steadily increasing number of places and holiday destinations, we finally have something more rooted in reality and clarity. A $175 cost is a fraction of previously stated fees. Very importantly, all of this was the result of the Government finally incorporating private sector opinion, after lengthy and intense debate. Although not explicitly admitted, the Government's position is an admission that there really had been no plan, and the establishment of the new public/private committee is a serious delegation of Covid decision making to a group other than the very tight circle of uninformed senior Government officials, mostly elected. It is a huge and welcome walkback. There has been serious division both within and outside Government, but this announcement should bring the different factions more in alignment.



Having been a member of the charter industry in the BVI, for the past fifteen years, I can tell everyone that we hope this answers doubts for potential visitors, and that people will see their way not to cancel their plans. This IS workable. And there are likely lots of boats available, even for late bookings over the coming holidays. Upthread, I have often said that I though things would be workable by the holidays. Although these clarifications have come very, very, unacceptably late, and the process has been an embarrassment for the Territory, we are finally on a good path.

[flynsailor]

Tracking device....I’m not a criminal. I am insulted that the government of the BVIs has adopted such draconian measures. I have plans to come this summer and bring nearly 20k in commerce to the island during one week of charter. If these procedures don’t change by then, I won’t be coming. The people don’t need to worry about COVID. They need to worry about their government.

[NPCampbell]

Originally Posted by Nicholson58

Do you know how hard it can be in the US to get a Covid test if you are healthy? State, city, county variations are enormous. Price varies from free with a doctor’s order to $400.

In the US, the CARES act defines who pays for Covid testing and it's not the patient ... unless you go to place that only takes cash. If you have insurance, your insurance company pays 100% and is not allowed to charge a co-pay. If you are uninsured, then the provider gets paid via the Health Resources & Services Administration.

Originally Posted by Nicholson58

In most places you must have a doctor’s order and an appointment. Appointments may be weeks out. Now try to get on a plane to a destination that requires a prior negative test. We had to buy kits on line. Being over 65 gets them Medicare coverage. Antigua will not accept a self inflicted test so we need to find a friendly medical professional to stick the probes up our noses and sign off. Then, FEDEX to the lab.

Availability was rough in the early days but it should be widely available now as the US averages over a million tests per day. I'd be interested in knowing where they are scarce? The testing machines are so widespread that 90%+ of the 16,000 nursing homes in the country have their own testing machines on-premise.

[contrail]

Originally Posted by flynsailor

Tracking device....I’m not a criminal. I am insulted that the government of the BVIs has adopted such draconian measures. I have plans to come this summer and bring nearly 20k in commerce to the island during one week of charter. If these procedures don’t change by then, I won’t be coming. The people don’t need to worry about COVID. They need to worry about their government.

Don't shoot the messenger, please, but it may help to understand their reasoning. Months ago, when the BVI first allowed it's citizens abroad to repatriate, isolating was done either monitored, in a hotel, or more loosely monitored on the honor system, at home. Much of the local population, who had endured a five week total lockdown, with associated financial losses (those lockdowns in the US are, in fact, far from lockdowns such as we had) were very dubious; the reward for our sacrifice was zero cases and we wanted to keep it that way. Human nature being what it is, the honor system was violated, and the result was twelve cases and one death, in a very small community and in a very short time. As a result, quarantine became enforced by security guards, whether in a Government sponsored hotel, or at home. Some weeks later, our borders, which were closed, were violated by people visiting St. Thomas and returning, illicitly, and the next thing you know, we had over sixty cases, but thankfully no deaths. This caused another lockdown and probably a two month delay in opening our borders. As a result, people are very concerned that things like quarantine and borders be strictly monitored. The security guards, hotels, etc, were very costly for the Government, and the tracking devices were brought into the picture as a way to eliminate the need for them.



NOBODY likes the tracking devices, whether because of religious reasons, or because "they are not criminals", or whatever. Nobody. On the other hand, Nobody particularly likes to be under the thumb of a security guard, either. And, in small island countries like the BVI, the medical facilities cannot cope with a substantial outbreak. We currently have zero cases. That is not only to our advantage, but to the advantage of tourist visitors. So, rather than feel insulted, perhaps a more realistic approach might be to regard the devices as part of the system that preserves YOUR safety, as well as ours. Let's face it...if the BVI kept having major outbreaks, you probably wouldn't want to come! We tried it the other way, and found that people who have a more casual regard for Covid than the majority of people in the BVI have had, could not be counted on to uphold the regulations for the common good. So, to keep the place safe for us and YOU, visitors, from tourists to returning citizens will probably find the devices the least intrusive solution.



Personally, I think the Government has made many mistakes in all of this. However, notwithstanding the huge economic hit we have suffered, it HAS kept us safe. Safer than New Zealand. So, as someone who, no doubt, comes from a country that doesn't have a handle on the virus, even whilst having a much more robust health care system than we do, I would reconsider your advice that we not worry about Covid. By the way, the USVI has already had to turn away prospective guests who tested positive, so this is not theoretical.

[flynsailor]

Originally Posted by contrail

Don't shoot the messenger, please, but it may help to understand their reasoning. Months ago, when the BVI first allowed it's citizens abroad to repatriate, isolating was done either monitored, in a hotel, or more loosely monitored on the honor system, at home. Much of the local population, who had endured a five week total lockdown, with associated financial losses (those lockdowns in the US are, in fact, far from lockdowns such as we had) were very dubious; the reward for our sacrifice was zero cases and we wanted to keep it that way. Human nature being what it is, the honor system was violated, and the result was twelve cases and one death, in a very small community and in a very short time. As a result, quarantine became enforced by security guards, whether in a Government sponsored hotel, or at home. Some weeks later, our borders, which were closed, were violated by people visiting St. Thomas and returning, illicitly, and the next thing you know, we had over sixty cases, but thankfully no deaths. This caused another lockdown and probably a two month delay in opening our borders. As a result, people are very concerned that things like quarantine and borders be strictly monitored. The security guards, hotels, etc, were very costly for the Government, and the tracking devices were brought into the picture as a way to eliminate the need for them.



NOBODY likes the tracking devices, whether because of religious reasons, or because "they are not criminals", or whatever. Nobody. On the other hand, Nobody particularly likes to be under the thumb of a security guard, either. And, in small island countries like the BVI, the medical facilities cannot cope with a substantial outbreak. We currently have zero cases. That is not only to our advantage, but to the advantage of tourist visitors. So, rather than feel insulted, perhaps a more realistic approach might be to regard the devices as part of the system that preserves YOUR safety, as well as ours. Let's face it...if the BVI kept having major outbreaks, you probably wouldn't want to come! We tried it the other way, and found that people who have a more casual regard for Covid than the majority of people in the BVI have had, could not be counted on to uphold the regulations for the common good. So, to keep the place safe for us and YOU, visitors, from tourists to returning citizens will probably find the devices the least intrusive solution.



Personally, I think the Government has made many mistakes in all of this. However, notwithstanding the huge economic hit we have suffered, it HAS kept us safe. Safer than New Zealand. So, as someone who, no doubt, comes from a country that doesn't have a handle on the virus, even whilst having a much more robust health care system than we do, I would reconsider your advice that we not worry about Covid. By the way, the USVI has already had to turn away prospective guests who tested positive, so this is not theoretical.

Contrail, I appreciate your response but I disagree with the BVIs approach. The government has the right to isolate itself from the rest of the world. But at what cost? For the people who live in the BVIs who rely on tourism to survive, where that is their only source of income, I doubt they support any of this. Im sure the people that live there, that have the financial means to “survive” without the resources that the charter industry provides is fine with this. Because they are being “protected.” My whole family has had Covid. We were fine. There is no mention of that in the opening plans. If you already had it you shouldn’t need the testing and quarantine requirements.

Like I said, we had it and we were fine. This is not a killer virus like Ebola or SARS, 99.9% of healthy people will do fine. Did we lock down with Polio? I personally feel the lockdowns and quarantines will have a much longer and lasting effect from the lives and businesses it destroys than the virus itself. Just my opinion.

[SquidIdeal]

I think most everyone would agree that if you wanted lessons on how not to do communication this would be high on the list. The premature announcement of opening for tourism without actually providing the protocols were to put it lightly, ill advised. Looking at this from the outside I also think few would disagree that if keeping folks from getting infected with Covid-19, was your number one goal, the BVI gets an a-plus. Mostly everything else however is in the fail column.

I 100% understand why they are doing what they are doing, I just don’t agree (my opinion) with how they are going about it. You get a very strong vibe of “we have no idea what we are doing”. It’s a shame really as I believe there are quite few very knowledgeable folks in the BVI.

The protocols, as the currently stand, has a silver lining though. It shows that by and large the people in charge recognize that they don’t know what they are doing and seem to be willing to change their minds when faced with overwhelming criticism/outrage.

If the “new” protocols can be believed, its step in the right direction. The problem though is that it still has one giant problem. The monitoring and the bracelets.

Put aside for one moment the clear fact that wearing a monitored bracelet is associated with criminality and government overreach (which in itself will disqualify many, many potential visitors) there are quite few very practical and technical issues which will doom their use. Its unfortunate really as I’m sure they spent real money on the “solution”. I’m sure a very slick salesguy gave them the demo and explained how this was going to be the solution to their problem.

I see a few issues – as mentioned just the fact that they want you to wear a bracelet is something I despise. I have issues with the idea behind it as well as the practicalities, I take my watch off when I sleep for instance and don’t like jewelry – now you are wearing a reminder of the whole situation in the hot tropics….for myself personally, I could live with it for a few days if that meant I was helping keep everyone safe but not for my entire stay – assuming I could figure out way to come for 2 or 3 weeks. Wearing it for the entire period though is non-starter for me and I would imagine, a lot of other potential guests.

Technically this is going to be a disaster as well.
The app on your phone:
1. Security issues for the rest of your info on your phone
2. Your battery may die – GPS sucks a lot of power on mobile devices
3. Your phone might die/get broken or fall into the ocean
4. The data charges related to the app
5. Your phone may end up in the bilge – or somewhere else there is no service

There are 1000 ways I can think of how the app may stop working both accidentally and or on purpose. Are they going to fine you for everything….real and imagined
The bracelet –

1. Accidental damage – water ingress
2. Accidentally got wrapped in foil…..
3. Accidentally got ripped off
4. Accidentally got connected to a 110 volt power supply.

Once again, hundreds of accidental and purposeful ways to make it stop working.

I would almost just give them the $125 dollar fine at the beginning and then throw it in the trash.

The simple fact is that if you were really serious about tracking people the equipment needed would be way more robust and expensive. Unfortunately, tracking people 100% of the time with reliability is going to be a fools errant (using their system) aside from the fact that only the most serious and committed charter guest is going to be willing to submit to it. It bogles the mind that they didn’t try a more mature technical solution – think, insisting that all charter boats have AIS and must be switched on. At least this way they could track your movements if contact tracing became necessary.
Lol – I can see the poor fool staring at the screen at 400 moving dots, getting paid $1/hour and scrambling the swat team every time a dot goes blank.

So…the protocols as they stand are workable but for very few. I’m hoping the chaos created by the clever monitoring system will lead to it being scrapped (the monitoring system) – or better yet, just perform as well as the website that says 11/2/2020 – lol . Drop the monitoring though and I’m sure you’ll see life coming back into at least the charter market. Heck ill even be willing to wear their stupid dog collar for 4 days between the first and second PCR test.

For the record I own one of the charter boats in the BVI and mobile technology solutions actually paid for most of it so I think my opinion has at least a little bit of knowledge behind it.

Oh, and don’t even get me started on Boatyball…..