Canadian COVID-19 News

[Midnight Son]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

In addition to LE's comments, it's important to focus on your "likely" descriptor. Being vaccinated significantly lowers one's risk of severe illness, hospitalization and death. But it doesn't erase it. The fact is, most people "likely" won't die from Covid-19, vaccinated or not. But there is still a risk, in either case, and one that in this case is unnecessary since there is a simple solution to the Covid problem: Get Vaccinated.

The unvaccinated are unnecessarily perpetuating the pandemic, forcing all society to continue to take protective measures, curtail normal activity, and giving the virus even more opportunity to mutate into something even worse. Once again, the anti-folk are simply looking for free ride.

So no... I'm tired of giving anti-vaxxers a break. If they want to live in fear and ignorance, then they will do so with increasing restrictions on their freedoms that they apparently so dearly cherish. This way, the rest of us can get on with our lives.

Choice -- Consequence.

Thank you Mike, you have stated my frustration with these FREEDUMB types perfectly.

[Macblaze]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

If so, then the non vaxers are really only endangering their own lives.
What am I missing here??

Alberta's ICUs are full again with mostly non-vaccinated patents. Surgeries have been cancelled again.

If they don't want to get vaccinated then perhaps we should consider moving them down the triage list and let them tough it out in hospital hallways.

Enough is enough. So many of these people aren't the bleeding heart 'liberals" who think every life is precious — they are the right leaning libertarian types who think personal choice is king. Fine let them choose to go second when they can't breathe or choose to get vaccinated. I am almost at a point where I am willing to sacrifice the legitimate non-vaccinated just to eliminate the dumb ones—darn good thing I am not a politician right now.

People are so damn stupid sometimes. And I am tired of paying for it.

[sv_pelagia]

A neighbour/friend of ours is an ER nurse, and sees MANY COVID-19 patients. She surprised us the other day by stating that if ventilators etc become scarce again, non-vaxxed folks WILL be triaged such that they do not get the max treatment, simply because in choosing between a non-vax and vax COVID-19 patient, the patient who has been vaccinated has the better chance of survival and thus gets the scarce treatment.

Makes sense.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by sv_pelagia

A neighbour/friend of ours is an ER nurse, and sees MANY COVID-19 patients. She surprised us the other day by stating that if ventilators etc become scarce again, non-vaxxed folks WILL be triaged such that they do not get the max treatment, simply because in choosing between a non-vax and vax COVID-19 patient, the patient who has been vaccinated has the better chance of survival and thus gets the scarce treatment.

Makes sense.

Makes scary sense. Let's hope your friend never has to make this choice.

And sadly, one of the last tools we can use is some sort of vaccine passport. If people want to go unvaccinated, then fine. It's their choice. But it's the rest of society's choice not to have them mingling broadly.


BTW, there's nothing new about this approach. We have always done this around many other infectious diseases. Heck, we use this approach around influenza.

[hpeer]

People are so damn stupid sometimes. And I am tired of paying for it.

Welcome to the right wing.

[Pelagic]

Thanks Mike and LE.
Understand that getting vaccinated will relieve the pressure on Hospitals and that is a good enough reason to get vaccinated.

But will that change anything?

Things here in the Philippines are pretty bad with their limited health care system totally overwhelmed. Hospitals turning away the sick and over 20,000 new positives daily.

Luckily I have both jabs of AZ vaccine, most of the young locals have none and their overcrowded homes and public transport makes social distancing impossible for them

Future is bleak as vaccine availability is dependent on foreign aid and SNAFU Philippine distribution management .

The small shipyard where I am isolated on board has been shut down last month with workers all testing positive. Same at the yacht club where staff from the offices, hotel, cassino and dock all tested positive.

Yet few actually come down with symptoms despite our worst fears.

Both Zaida and I are vaccinated, we keep to ourselves , yet experience minor flu type symptoms since getting vaccinated.

I am assuming we have been exposed to Covid, but avoid getting tested as it won't change anything except put us on a draconian list of paying for repeated tests in crowded clinics.

I now feel that we have to try and live with Covid and without fear.
Stop the constant testing which I think only heightens stress and accept that face masks become part of your going out wardrobe.

Seems to me that in countries like Canada with a health insurance system, ....
voiding health insurance if not vaccinated would make them pay for their convictions.

[Macblaze]

Originally Posted by hpeer

Welcome to the right wing.

Oh I've been there, done that. The one thing I have discovered over the years is that it's the "true believers" on all points of the political spectrum that are the real problem.

But this issue is starting to get under my skin and I want to see my boat again. So I starting to come down on the side of hoisting some of the more obstinate on their own petards.

And for the record the cost isn't $$. Couldn't give a crap about that.

[Macblaze]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Seems to me that in countries with a health insurance system, voiding health insurance if not vaccinated would make them pay for their convictions.

The irony being that those countries with a health insurance system theoretically care enough about human life and health that they would never countenance such a thing.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Thanks Mike and LE.
Understand that getting vaccinated will relieve the pressure on Hospitals and that is a good enough reason to get vaccinated.

But will that change anything?

Here in Canada (which is the focus of this thread), the answer is most definitely yes. If we could achieve effective herd immunity -- and we're ever-so-close now, then most definitely, YES.

The issues most of the less-wealthy parts of the world face are a whole other kettle of fish. I have no idea what's happening in the Philippines, but from your descriptions, it sounds bad.

But we're here talking about the Canadian context, and here we are awash in vaccine. There is no rational reason (outside of specific medical issues) to not get one. So the consequences of this choice are very real, and very avoidable.

Originally Posted by Pelagic

I now feel that we have to try and live with Covid and without fear.
Stop the constant testing which I think only heightens stress and accept that face masks become part of your going out wardrobe.

I agree with your mask comment, and that we have to find ways to live with the virus. But I don't know why we'd want to stop the testing. Without testing we won't know where and how outbreaks may be spreading. Why would one choose ignorance over knowledge? Makes no sense to me.

The issue of fear is an intersting one. I don't know anyone, on any side of this discussion, living in fear. I do see a lot of rational cautiousness, and a lot of irrational responses to the vaccine. Covid-19 is not Ebola, but it is still a very serious disease which has killed around 2% of its victims in North America. That is a rate far and above most risks we deem acceptable.

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Seems to me that in countries like Canada with a health insurance system, ....
voiding health insurance if not vaccinated would make them pay for their convictions.

Actually, I've expected places which rely on private health insurance to take this kind of action fairly quickly. With regulated government-funded health insurance, we have all those legal requirements to treat everyone equally. But in a private situation, the only driving force is profit, so surely the purposely unvaccinated will be a profit drain on these companies.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Future is bleak as vaccine availability is dependent on foreign aid and SNAFU Philippine distribution management .

The small shipyard where I am isolated on board has been shut down last month with workers all testing positive. Same at the yacht club where staff from the offices, hotel, cassino and dock all tested positive.

Yet few actually come down with symptoms despite our worst fears.

Your report from the Philippines reminds us that the North American vaccine 'fight' is just another "first-world problem" , where we have the luxury of free, readily-available vaccines to refuse. The reality in other countries escapes our privileged short-sightedness.

I recall last year reading that the impact of COVID in some African countries was not as drastic as feared, and the reason given was that because more communicable diseases are around there, the people have some previous exposure to related coronaviruses. I haven't seen a more recent report, so no idea how those countries have fared since.

We in North America must look like complete loons or selfish and ungrateful jerks from the outside.

[deblen]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Thanks Mike and LE.
Understand that getting vaccinated will relieve the pressure on Hospitals and that is a good enough reason to get vaccinated.

But will that change anything?

Things here in the Philippines are pretty bad with their limited health care system totally overwhelmed. Hospitals turning away the sick and over 20,000 new positives daily.

Luckily I have both jabs of AZ vaccine, most of the young locals have none and their overcrowded homes and public transport makes social distancing impossible for them

Future is bleak as vaccine availability is dependent on foreign aid and SNAFU Philippine distribution management .

The small shipyard where I am isolated on board has been shut down last month with workers all testing positive. Same at the yacht club where staff from the offices, hotel, cassino and dock all tested positive.

Yet few actually come down with symptoms despite our worst fears.

Both Zaida and I are vaccinated, we keep to ourselves , yet experience minor flu type symptoms since getting vaccinated.

I am assuming we have been exposed to Covid, but avoid getting tested as it won't change anything except put us on a draconian list of paying for repeated tests in crowded clinics.

I now feel that we have to try and live with Covid and without fear.
Stop the constant testing which I think only heightens stress and accept that face masks become part of your going out wardrobe.

Seems to me that in countries like Canada with a health insurance system, ....
voiding health insurance if not vaccinated would make them pay for their convictions.

You should be safe from requiring hospitalization according to records kept of lack of deaths or serious illness by people that have been vaccinated.

WE may or may not need boosters some time in the future in order to maintain this level of protection but that is not confirmed yet.
https://health-infobase.canada.ca/co...ine-safety/#a4


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...rare-1.6083284

[N Coast Murray]

I was put on a "time out" on another boating forum for the egregious act of posting the worldwide numbers for total Covid-19 infections and deaths, plus a link to the Worldometers site. Won't be going back.

So nice to see such an open discussion on this topic here.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by deblen

You should be safe from requiring hospitalization according to records kept of lack of deaths or serious illness by people that have been vaccinated.

WE may or may not need boosters some time in the future in order to maintain this level of protection but that is not confirmed yet.
https://health-infobase.canada.ca/co...ine-safety/#a4

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...rare-1.6083284

Yes indeed. And just to reiterate the point, here are the current national stats for Cases, Hospitalizations, and Deaths:

https://health-infobase.canada.ca/co...ast7&map=pt#a2

As the numbers show, vaccination does a tremendous job in lowering the risk of a serious Covid-19 case. It's not zero, but it's magnitudes better than being unvaccinated.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Here in Canada (which is the focus of this thread), the answer is most definitely yes. If we could achieve effective herd immunity -- and we're ever-so-close now, then most definitely, YES.

The issues most of the less-wealthy parts of the world face are a whole other kettle of fish. I have no idea what's happening in the Philippines, but from your descriptions, it sounds bad.

But we're here talking about the Canadian context, and here we are awash in vaccine. There is no rational reason (outside of specific medical issues) to not get one. So the consequences of this choice are very real, and very avoidable.



I agree with your mask comment, and that we have to find ways to live with the virus. But I don't know why we'd want to stop the testing. Without testing we won't know where and how outbreaks may be spreading. Why would one choose ignorance over knowledge? Makes no sense to me.

The issue of fear is an intersting one. I don't know anyone, on any side of this discussion, living in fear. I do see a lot of rational cautiousness, and a lot of irrational responses to the vaccine. Covid-19 is not Ebola, but it is still a very serious disease which has killed around 2% of its victims in North America. That is a rate far and above most risks we deem acceptable.



Actually, I've expected places which rely on private health insurance to take this kind of action fairly quickly. With regulated government-funded health insurance, we have all those legal requirements to treat everyone equally. But in a private situation, the only driving force is profit, so surely the purposely unvaccinated will be a profit drain on these companies.

It's great that my home country is getting on top of vaccinations and if annual boosters become the norm, I am all for it.

But the issue of Fear Mongering is something we need to be aware of

I agree the members discussing here are intelligent enough to follow the numbers, but many others just follow the media soundbites of those with an agenda.

Mike, consider this;
The Placebo Effect is well proven to help patients.
Sustained Media or Political Fear Mongering probably has the reverse effect.

If we were to get an executive checkup every month, Medical clinics would find something wrong with us every time.

Do we want to be turned into a hypochondriac mindset by continued testing or just accept and live with Covid

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

But the issue of Fear Mongering is something we need to be aware of

I agree the members discussing here are intelligent enough to follow the numbers, but many others just follow the media soundbites of those with an agenda.

Who are 'those', and what agenda?

I think you should consider the effects of the stupid-mongering from those downplaying the pandemic and vaccination for political reasons.