Canadian COVID-19 News

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

Utter ******** !

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-f...-idUSKBN24420X

Indeed. And no one could be stupid enough to accidentally misunderstand what was said. This is intentional twisting of words and disinformation.

[GordMay]

COVID-19 hospital stays cost 3 times more than a stay for heart attack

The estimated average cost of a hospital stay for COVID-19 is more than $23,000. This includes both intensive care unit (ICU), and non-ICU admissions.

The average cost of treating a COVID-19 patient, who needs intensive care, in Canada, is estimated at more than $50,000, compared with $8,400, for someone who's had a heart attack [> six times higher] , a new report says. [1]

Data, from the Canadian Institute for Health Information (CIHI) [1], shows the average cost for patients being treated for the virus, is more than $23,000, which is four times higher than a patient with influenza, and nearly three times higher than a heart attack patient..

The report reinforces the economic consequences of a serious illness, though it does not include the cost for doctors.

The report says those with COVID-19 remain in hospital for about 15 days, twice as long as the typical pneumonia patient, whose treatment cost is about $8,000, and that more of those sick with COVID-19 are admitted to ICU, and ventilated [ICU patients stay in hospital for 21 days average]. One out of every five of them dies in intensive care.

However, hospital costs for those with COVID-19, who later recover, may be lower in the end [for instance, compared to the estimated $80,000 of care over a decade, for patients with cardiovascular diseases based on years of poor eating habits].

[1] About CIHI Report ➥ https://www.cihi.ca/en/covid-19-hosp...r-heart-attack

Hospital spending ➥ https://www.cihi.ca/en/hospital-spending

COVID-19 hospitalization and emergency department statistics
➥ https://www.cihi.ca/en/covid-19-hosp...ent-statistics

➥ https://www.cihi.ca/en/covid-19-and-...hospital-costs

[Scorpius]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Here's an interesting discussion piece in the Globe about the legality of vaccine passports:
Legal questions around rights linger as some provinces bring in COVID-19 vaccine passports


There will no doubt be court and human rights challenges brought against these plans. So far Covid-19 restrictions have stood the tests in these legal arenas, but as the article discusses, there are probably right ways, and wrong ways to institute these passports.

My concern, and sympathies, are with the poor kid at McDonald's, or the hostess at White Spot who has to tell the big 30's something anti-vaxxer dude that he can't be served and must leave because he can't, or won't, produce a vaccine passport.

[desodave]

Yes the enforcement of the public health order will be difficult. Some likely bigger restaurants will put managers on the door, in others it will fall to junior workers. It may not matter to some of the yahoos... there will be confrontations.
I find it hard to believe that the BC passport system will remain with no exemptions. There are legit reasons why some people don't get a vaccination and there's a long history of reasonable accommodation in Canadian law.
Latest stats here show almost 85% of the people in ICUs are not vaccinated.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Scorpius

My concern, and sympathies, are with the poor kid at McDonald's, or the hostess at White Spot who has to tell the big 30's something anti-vaxxer dude that he can't be served and must leave because he can't, or won't, produce a vaccine passport.

Agreed, it is going to be difficult in some cases. Some of the idiocy we're seeing on the campaign trail is no doubt going to walking up to the door of these establishments. I agree with Dave in that I hope the establishments recognize this reality, and put senior staff at the door -- at least for a while.

It is surprising that the BC passport isn't accommodating those who can't get the vaccine for legitimate health reasons. There are some, but the numbers aren't huge, so we should be able to accommodate those folks.

I guess the concern is that too many yahoos will try and use this as a loophole. These would have to be clearly established, and then it will fall to medical professionals to sign off on an exemption.

[Scorpius]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Agreed, it is going to be difficult in some cases. Some of the idiocy we're seeing on the campaign trail is no doubt going to walking up to the door of these establishments. I agree with Dave in that I hope the establishments recognize this reality, and put senior staff at the door -- at least for a while.

It is surprising that the BC passport isn't accommodating those who can't get the vaccine for legitimate health reasons. There are some, but the numbers aren't huge, so we should be able to accommodate those folks.

I guess the concern is that too many yahoos will try and use this as a loophole. These would have to be clearly established, and then it will fall to medical professionals to sign off on an exemption.

Yes, I think the lack of exemptions is to give the "yahoos" no out. This lack may be challenged in the courts who will lay down the rules but it buys time and in the meantime it takes a complexity out of the system.

And/or Health Services may be privately telling doctors to call on behalf of clients who legitimately cannot be vaccinated and passports will be issued to those people even though they've not received the shots. This would considerably simplify enforcement.

[desodave]

I think that the BC no exemption passport just simplifies the approval process for the vaccination card. I downloaded the app (had to add security to my phone first - required for the download) then had to establish who I was. That involved taking a picture of myself to be matched to the photo on my BC health card, and a short video to prove (I guess) that I'm actually alive. Then the date that I received one of my vaccine shots. Approval took approx 48 hours and I now have the vaccination card saved on my phone. There were approx 1.1 million vaccination cards issued in the first couple of days. An exemption procedure would undoubtedly require more, and more specialized, resources to administer, and complicate a relatively simple process.

If this is to be a longer term order, I suspect that the BC gov't will have to come up with those resources and a process for exemptions. I'm sure there will be applications based on what they've read on Facebook as there have already been rejected Human Rights complaints based on little more than that. I'm hoping that there are some serious discussions going on re what would constitute a legit (for medical reasons) exemption. Imo the no exemption policy just makes the process appear more unfair ... which then plays into the anti-vaxx crowd.

[bcboomer]

What medical reasons for not getting the shot?
I've had a look online but can't find any information on who cannot tolerate the vaccine.
There are certain steps that those with severe allergies should take. Maybe that's why the no-exception rule.

[danstanford]

For what it is worth, some hope is present. All of my employees now have been vaccinated save for one who has a philosophical problem with being mandated to take a product without anyone taking the liability if it blows up. The hope is in the fact that he will get vaccinated if mandated by me, his employer as a condition of employment.

Perhaps inaccurately, I am interpreting this decision as acquiescence in the face of multiple inputs of encouragement and the promise of more freedom in his future. In the end it really doesn't matter why, it is just the fact that we will be doing the right and responsible things.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by desodave

...Imo the no exemption policy just makes the process appear more unfair ... which then plays into the anti-vaxx crowd.

That's my fear as well Dave. Clearly, there are some people who cannot receive the vaccine. Specific allergies, or various immune conditions can preclude vaccination. But these are few in our society. By not accommodating these people, it gives the anti-crowd a means of legal attack.

It would be great if, as you suggest Scorpius, BC Health is simply working quietly behind the scenes to set up the necessary accommodations for these folks.

[desodave]

Originally Posted by bcboomer

What medical reasons for not getting the shot?
I've had a look online but can't find any information on who cannot tolerate the vaccine.
There are certain steps that those with severe allergies should take. Maybe that's why the no-exception rule.

I understand that the shots are not recommended for many immuno compromised people, although I suspect that most of them are trying to avoid unnecessary public contact during a pandemic. But I'm not a doctor and will leave those decisions to the medics. The intro of the passport here has certainly provided at least a short-term jump in the vaccination rate ... which was undoubtedly one of the main goals of its intro.

[bcboomer]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

That's my fear as well Dave. Clearly, there are some people who cannot receive the vaccine. Specific allergies, or various immune conditions can preclude vaccination. But these are few in our society..

The only info I can find regarding allergies refers to a PEG allergy. 37 potential cases in 40 years in the US.
Immune compromised people are especially encouraged to get the vaccine.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by bcboomer

What medical reasons for not getting the shot?
I've had a look online but can't find any information on who cannot tolerate the vaccine.
There are certain steps that those with severe allergies should take. Maybe that's why the no-exception rule.

There are no known medical conditions which absolutely prevent a person from getting a Covid-19 vaccine.

However, as with everything during the pandemic nothing is simple, and there are rare circumstances where people should consult with physicians, to help them make an informed decision, and manage any potential risk. One of these health conditions, which is somewhat of a murky gray area, is known severe allergies either to previous vaccines, or to the first shot of a Covid-19 vaccine.
The CDC provides guidance, on what people with these allergies, and/or other medical conditions, should do.

“COVID-19 Vaccines for People with Allergies” ~ CDC
➥ https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...allergies.html

“COVID-19 Vaccines for People with Underlying Medical Conditions” ~ CDC
➥ https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...onditions.html

“People with Certain Medical Conditions” ~ CDC
➥ https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...onditions.html

[bcboomer]

One of my dock neighbours and his wife will not get the shot because he had an allergic reaction to a bee or wasp sting! And they still entertain others on their boat.

I'm sick and tied of the excuses and justifications I get from those who refuse the vaccine.

[Macblaze]

Originally Posted by bcboomer

The only info I can find regarding allergies refers to a PEG allergy. 37 potential cases in 40 years in the US.
Immune compromised people are especially encouraged to get the vaccine.

I had a friend who was undergoing a newer treatment for a condition and was strongly encouraged not to get the vaccine at that point. Thankfully the treatment ended and she has been able to catch up with her vaccinations. I imagine the medical cases generally fall into categories like that where they don't want to screw with other treatments.


Meanwhile in Alberta the gov't is sending acute care patients home to make way for the covid patients. This means my friend's elderly mother who is still waiting for long term care space and is on antibiotics and an iv will now be at home being looked after by drop in care workers. Ain't that a kick in the pants.