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Lake-Effect · 01-10-2021, 13:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

Even with a near 100% vaccination rate it won't go away. It's not effective enough with the variants. You said masks would stop it, then closures, social distancing, then the vaccine. It's time to face reality.

Reality is that a high percentage of vaccination, and a responsible attitude towards masks, distancing, and sensible rules can keep the infections, hospitalizations and deaths down enough that medical resources aren't overloaded. If you need proof, just look at the data from different provinces, or compare Canada with the US.

kmacdonald · 01-10-2021, 13:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

You have it backwards. Since this is a discussion about Canadian Covid issues, here's a Canadian report.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...cine-1.6195142

I have yet to see one that you claim is the other way around.

It's not going away because of the antivaxxers. Ths thing could be squashed flat in no time, if only the stupids would get jabbed.

And if calling them stupid is violent, then you oughta read the link.

No Stu. The link is an example of patient to doctor altercation. It's not exactly relevant to what we were talking about. Anti- vaxers in the US are being fired for not getting vaccination. It's being challenged in the courts. A real mess.

desodave · 01-10-2021, 14:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

No Stu. The link is an example of patient to doctor altercation. It's not exactly relevant to what we were talking about. Anti- vaxers in the US are being fired for not getting vaccination. It's being challenged in the courts. A real mess.

Stu's take is correct imo, not yours kmac. These ARE anti-vaxx people wanting exemptions and abusing the doctor when they won't issue it. Imo your analysis re violence is hypothetical. There are almost daily reports in Canadian media of people abusing (sometimes violently) workers just trying to effect compliance with gov't public health orders.

There will be legal issues around the employer demands for vaccination and they may get settled differently in your country than in ours. Employment issues are about someone's right to earn a living v the employer's obligation to maintain a safe workplace. Public health orders in this country are about limiting the ability of non-vaccinated people to access non-essential services. Big difference imo

kmacdonald · 01-10-2021, 14:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by desodave

Stu's take is correct imo, not yours kmac. These ARE anti-vaxx people wanting exemptions and abusing the doctor when they won't issue it. Imo your analysis re violence is hypothetical. There are almost daily reports in Canadian media of people abusing (sometimes violently) workers just trying to effect compliance with gov't public health orders.

There will be legal issues around the employer demands for vaccination and they may get settled differently in your country than in ours. Employment issues are about someone's right to earn a living v the employer's obligation to maintain a safe workplace. Public health orders in this country are about limiting the ability of non-vaccinated people to access non-essential services. Big difference imo

The patient doctor altercation would have happened regardless of what the patient wanted if the doctor refused. I was the IT director of a large joint replacement practice that wouldn't give temporary handicap tags to patients because they wanted them to walk. Some of the patients would flip **** over it. Just saying.

Scorpius · 01-10-2021, 16:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by yacht.wanderer

How on Earth can those who chose to be vaccinated, actually be so afraid of folk who choose not to have the procedure. Surely, vaccinated people are the one’s who pose most risk to those who are not ? Seems pretty odd to the thinking Man..

And then there are the overt physical threats from the anti-vaxxers:

https://vancouverisland.ctvnews.ca/3...gers-1.5606203

kmacdonald · 01-10-2021, 16:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scorpius

And then there are the overt physical threats from the anti-vaxxers:

https://vancouverisland.ctvnews.ca/3...gers-1.5606203

Yes, I know its happening. In the above case the people refusing to wear a mask might have been practicing self defense of the passengers that confronted them. It's called assault in the US. The police seem to agree with my opinion since they said "do not confront people not wearing a mask, call police." People not wearing a mask are guilty of not wearing a mask where required and the passengers that confronted them may be guilty of assault.

What makes you think they were anti-vaxers? Maybe they thought they didn't need to wear a mask since they were vaccinated.

Mike OReilly · 01-10-2021, 16:45

CBC:
Manitoba rules target gatherings involving unvaccinated people, stores in area with worst immunization rate

Quote:

Manitoba is bringing in new rules for unvaccinated people starting Tuesday as it works to prevent its health-care system from once more being overwhelmed by an increase in COVID-19 hospitalizations — a surge largely driven by people who aren't fully immunized.

That includes private indoor gatherings, which will be restricted to two households if any person at the gathering has chosen not to get vaccinated.

Only 10 people will be allowed to gather outdoors on private property if someone is attending who's eligible for vaccination but hasn't gotten their shots. In indoor public spaces, only 25 people or 25 per cent capacity, whichever is lower, will be allowed in such a situation.

For indoor faith-based gatherings that don't require proof of vaccination, capacity will be reduced to 25 people or 33 per cent capacity, whichever is greater. Fully immunized people and those under 12, who aren't yet eligible for vaccination, will be allowed to gather in these settings without capacity limits.

Pelagic · 01-10-2021, 16:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scorpius

And then there are the overt physical threats from the anti-vaxxers:

https://vancouverisland.ctvnews.ca/3...gers-1.5606203

My parents lived in Surrey after we moved from Edmonton.
Surrey was definately a biker town in those days.... had to keep my head down until I escaped

Stu Jackson · 01-10-2021, 16:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

Yes, I know its happening. In the above case the people refusing to wear a mask might have been practicing self defense of the passengers that confronted them. It's called assault in the US. The police seem to agree with my opinion since they said "do not confront people not wearing a mask, call police." People not wearing a mask are guilty of not wearing a mask where required and the passengers that confronted them may be guilty of assault.

What makes you think they were anti-vaxers? Maybe they thought they didn't need to wear a mask since they were vaccinated.

You sure have some very serious reading comprehension skills.

"Three men had become aggressive toward other passengers after refusing to wear mandated COVID masks," said Cpl. Andres Sanchez of Sidney-North Saanich RCMP."

The other passengers, who were following the rules and were masked, did NOT confront the idiots.

Maybe they were from Mars. Oh? Who is the they in this sentence? Make up all the sh*t you want, but those of us who read understood exactly what the article said did happen.

kmacdonald · 01-10-2021, 16:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

You sure have some very serious reading comprehension skills.

"Three men had become aggressive toward other passengers after refusing to wear mandated COVID masks," said Cpl. Andres Sanchez of Sidney-North Saanich RCMP."

The other passengers, who were following the rules and were masked, did NOT confront the idiots.

Maybe they were from Mars. Oh? Who is the they in this sentence? Make up all the sh*t you want, but those of us who read understood exactly what the article said did happen.

Read it again. The unmasked passengers were "confronted". The unmasked people were charged with "mischief" not assault. A lawer will have a field day with this one.

Scorpius · 01-10-2021, 16:59

Some very sobering reading: What it's like to die of Covid-19 in an ICU. This particular Toronto hospital is experiencing 34 Covid deaths A DAY in their ICU:

https://toronto.citynews.ca/2021/10/...-step-account/

sv_pelagia · 01-10-2021, 17:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

Even with a near 100% vaccination rate it won't go away. It's not effective enough with the variants.

Well, well over 80% effectiveness (and as high as 95%) against Delta is pretty damn effective for vaccines! So your statement is incorrect.

FROM: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2108891
"Only modest differences in vaccine effectiveness were noted with the delta variant as compared with the alpha variant after the receipt of two vaccine doses."

FROM:https://www.healthline.com/health-ne...mance-together "
"Estimated effectiveness of Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine: Vaccine effectiveness was 87 to 96 percent for all outcomes before Delta, but now it’s 39 to 84 percent effective against infection and 75 to 95 percent effective against hospitalization."

"Estimated effectiveness of Moderna COVID-19 vaccine: Vaccine effectiveness was around 80 to 95 percent for all outcomes before Delta, but now it’s 50 to 72 percent effective against infection and over 80 percent effective against hospitalization."

Yes, it is time for you to face reality!