Canadian COVID-19 News

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

The most important health system metric is outcomes, not expenditures. It seems we Canadians get a good bang for our healthcare buck, and care is universal. I'm proud of that. But yes I'd like to see a bit more reserve capacity in the system. Canada punches above its weight in medical research; I'd like to see this continue and maybe we could become a greater leader in medical education too.

Our outcomes are good, but not exceptional. We're not the top of any outcome list I've seen. I do think we get good value for the money spent, and as I said, I don't have an answer to what level of expenditure we should make. It's not clear to me whether we should have a lot more capacity in the system so as to more easily manage rare events like a pandemic. But if that's what people want, I do know it costs a lot more than we're currently spending.

We also have significant gaps in our so-called healthcare system(s). Dental is covered in most other countries. Not here. Pharmaceuticals likewise covered. All sorts of rehab and preventative care services have limited or no coverage under our system, but are found in most other developed nations'. And we've reduced (relatively speaking) the amount of money we spend on healthcare over time.

If you look around at other nation's (outside of the USA of course), there is much Canada could do to improve our systems.

But I am curious about your statement (bolded by me). On what basis do you make this claim? I ask because I spent much of my career writing and reporting on health research and issues in Canada. My observation is that Canada underperforms on the world stage when it comes to medical research when compared to its position as a G7 nation. But I don't have a metric to say for certain.

That's not to say Canada doesn't have world-class medical researchers and research capabilities. We definitely do. And we as a nation make important contributions each year. But I see no evidence that we are outperforming.

[hpeer]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

The most important health system metric is outcomes, not expenditures. It seems we Canadians get a good bang for our healthcare buck, and care is universal. I'm proud of that. But yes I'd like to see a bit more reserve capacity in the system. Canada punches above its weight in medical research; I'd like to see this continue and maybe we could become a greater leader in medical education too.

Interesting as this digression has been, overall capacity is not the point I was trying to make here. I was just trying to point out that we are coming up to the 2 year birthday of the pandemic, yet we don't yet seem to know what to do in the face of yet another predicted wave, in terms of medical response?

(then again, our healthcare system hasn't yet buckled, so maybe we are hitting the right balance, and I'm just focusing on the complaints of those stuck doing the heavy lifting)

I don’t think it possible to predict how this thing will develop, how it will literally evolve. Just try to not blame the folks who gave it their best shot and missed.

Doesn’t mean we should not try to be adequately prepared for the most likely or deadly developments; just that you should be prepared to be surprised.

We are buckled into a new and untested roller coaster ride, no good way to get off.

That lack of control is very hard to tolerate. But, there we are.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by danstanford

There is no way to avoid feeling the stress of those stuck in the medical field these days, particularly the ones who show up and do the work of those who do not show up. I know the stress I feel about those who are sick without looking them in the eye is bade enough but to be tasked with their care and unable to help more has got to be soul sucking.

Our healthcare workers have always impressed me, even before the COVID pandemic. Especially nurses. And they are carrying an incredible load right now. I sincerely hope we recognize and appreciate this, and give them the resources and support they need, now and into the future.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

Interesting as this digression has been, overall capacity is not the point I was trying to make here. I was just trying to point out that we are coming up to the 2 year birthday of the pandemic, yet we don't yet seem to know what to do in the face of yet another predicted wave, in terms of medical response?

But to take up your actual point, I think medical experts DO know what to do. It is our policy makers; mostly our politicians, who keep failing to do it.

From an epidemiological and public health perspective, the answers are fairly clear. Minimize gatherings, demand everyone wear good masks, test and trace everyone infected, have everyone vaccinated, and invest big bucks into much better indoor ventilation systems for places like schools and other large gathering places.

Problem is, these are hard to enforce and cost a lot of money. Medically, it's easy. Politicians, especially ones who want to be re-elected, find it hard to make these tough decisions.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

...I am curious about your statement [about Canada's medical research]. On what basis do you make this claim? I ask because I spent much of my career writing and reporting on health research and issues in Canada. My observation is that Canada underperforms on the world stage when it comes to medical research when compared to its position as a G7 nation. But I don't have a metric to say for certain.

That's not to say Canada doesn't have world-class medical researchers and research capabilities. We definitely do. And we as a nation make important contributions each year. But I see no evidence that we are outperforming.

We are G7, but we're still only 33 million folks. So it's been my impression that we punch above our weight in medical research. Maybe I'm just a sucker for a good press release. But I will gladly yield to better information.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

But to take up your actual point, I think medical experts DO know what to do. It is our policy makers; mostly our politicians, who keep failing to do it.

From an epidemiological and public health perspective, the answers are fairly clear. Minimize gatherings, demand everyone wear good masks, test and trace everyone infected, have everyone vaccinated, and invest big bucks into much better indoor ventilation systems for places like schools and other large gathering places.

Problem is, these are hard to enforce and cost a lot of money. Medically, it's easy. Politicians, especially ones who want to be re-elected, find it hard to make these tough decisions.

I was referring specifically to preparation of the healthcare system for the surge in cases.

As I also opined previously, I think the die is cast in terms of exposures. I believe that nothing short of an economically ruinous Chinese grade hard lockdown is going to seriously constrain the spread of Omicron, and so it is now down to individual behaviour based on risk tolerance, and coping with the surge in cases, which will be high, but over quickly. (I hope)

[Macblaze]

I think a good analogy for the governments response to healthcare in Canada can be found looking at our transit systems.

Every time I go to a major world city I am blown away by how easy and convenient it is to get around without a car or even a clue as to where I need to go. Here in Edmonton and/or Calgary if you haven't got a transit route planned out in advance and are prepared for the vagaries of chance and chaos you aren't going anywhere on Transit. And they want to charge us $4/ride starting this year.

Why? Because Paris, London and New York et al. have to move millions of people daily. They HAVE to. Transit isn't just a service, its a necessity.

Here in Canada (and I suspect in other places) health care is often just classed as a service, subject to cuts, whining about tax dollars, disputes about access etc. etc.

It takes a pandemic to make it it a necessity in the eyes of the taxpayer and the politicians (the users thought it a necessity all along...however briefly) although truly I am not sure if that will last the length of the pandemic—I think the restrictions on testing are starting to show the slippage.

[Macblaze]

In other news, I came across this:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/cloth-f...on-11640984082

I've said all along that I thought masks (as mandated) were a waste of time—I advocated keeping my distance and staying home instead—which is what I have done for two years...aaargh... Anyway, I feel for the students and office workers who have to daily go to spaces that force close proximity. Because this indicates the mask just don't cut it for any prolonged length of time and I don't see a future that has free N95 for all—especially not here in Alberta

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Macblaze

I think a good analogy for the governments response to healthcare in Canada can be found looking at our transit systems.

Every time I go to a major world city I am blown away by how easy and convenient it is to get around without a car or even a clue as to where I need to go. Here in Edmonton and/or Calgary if you haven't got a transit route planned out in advance and are prepared for the vagaries of chance and chaos you aren't going anywhere on Transit. And they want to charge us $4/ride starting this year.

Why? Because Paris, London and New York et al. have to move millions of people daily. They HAVE to. Transit isn't just a service, its a necessity.

Most major European cities were laid out before the dominance of the automobile, and mass transit has been a bigger part of their DNA. In Toronto, transit is pretty good and getting better. Some would argue that the Golden Horseshoe has the density required to make public transit more effective.

And I expect that expanded public transit is going to be a hard sell in Alberta anyways

I think the restrictions on testing are starting to show the slippage.

I believe that the speed of spread of Omicron is simply too great for individual testing to keep up with now, and the test results are therefore too late and too inaccurate to be worth the added effort of ramping up. Especially if it's just a short sharp peak that could be over in most Canadian cities by February.

[Scorpius]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Thanks Gord, another excellent metric. Canadians have this out-sized sense of pride around our public healthcare system. But compared to most other rich developed nations' systems, we should have little to be proud of. We really only look good compared to our southern neighbours, which as I say, are huge outliers.

One survey I read showed Canada 11th in the G12 for health care. Only the US was worse (the best system in the world if you can afford it. Pretty bad if you can't). At the time France was #1.

[Macblaze]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

I believe that the speed of spread of Omicron is simply too great for individual testing to keep up with now, and the test results are therefore too late and too inaccurate to be worth the added effort of ramping up. Especially if it's just a short sharp peak that could be over in most Canadian cities by February.

It's too hard, it's too expensive, it won't work well enough anyway, so why bother... See... my transit analogy fits perfectly

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Macblaze

It's too hard, it's too expensive, it won't work well enough anyway, so why bother... See... my transit analogy fits perfectly

I guess , but for an Omicron peak that could be over by Feb, it might actually be a legit excuse in this case. For starters, there's not near enough people available to do contact tracing of the big number of positive cases they'd find.

They're looking more to sewage testing to gauge the prevalance of COVID in the community, and hospital/ICU admissions to measure how well they are managing the surge. I don't know that ramped up individual testing (except for ill patients and hospital admissions) is going to be very useful at this point.

I suspect that in this surge, if someone isn't able to isolate as much as possible, they WILL be exposed to Omicron at some point this month, and then it's just down to nature of exposure, vaccinations, masks, general health, and plain dumb luck, as to whether they become infected. We've already had one close call, with a friend whose son later tested positive.

[AiniA]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

A

Salaries in medicine are totally out of line.

I don' think we should over-generalize here. We have friends who are doctors in New Jersey (orthopedic surgeon and radiologist). They bought a new Hylas 54 several years ago. I can assure you that Canadian docs are not buying US$1.5 million+ boats. And I am not a doctor or in healthcare btw.

[Scorpius]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

G&M:
Quebec to expand use of COVID-19 vaccine passports to liquor, pot stores

I suggested this a long time ago. I bet this will inspire many currently "hesitant" people to get vaccinated. I hope other provinces follow suit.

I wouldn't want to see this expanded to true essential services like grocery stores, but it's hard to argue that liquor stores are "essential." And I say this as one who sure loves his booze.

This is interesting. I heard one take on it on CBC twice in the past week. I don't remember the actual program - but a professor from, I believe, UBC was interviewed about the POSITIVE effects of alcohol on human evolution and development. Apparently it's been around a very, very long time (longer than most historians and anthropologists have previously thought) and even predates bread.

By anaesthetizing the prefrontal cortex, alcohol reduces inhibitions thus "lubricating" social interaction and increasing creativity. Conversations and ideas generally flow more smoothly when alcohol is being consumed. "Off the wall", "out of the box" and non-linear thinking abounds. Many ideas are discussed and many discarded but a few gems emerge. Google's "Whisky Room" was cited. When faced with a brick wall, Google developers are encouraged to go have a Scotch in the Whisky Room and kick the issue around with others, rather than banging their heads against the screen in their cubicles. The British mastery of the world from Elizabethan times to the 20th Century occurred via discussions in the "smoking" rooms of private clubs throughout the empire, but most notably in England. Lloyds of London, which invented insurance, was one such club where scions of industry very successfully schemed to enhance their riches through the exploitation of the colonies.

Apparently, early in the pandemic, Pennsylvania closed liquor stores. It lasted less than three hours. Although, despite my earlier posts (over a year ago?) on this thread supporting the idea of closing liquor stores, I now accept that they are "essential" services. However, I also support the idea of needing Covid passports to access them. In fact, I'd have no problem requiring a Covid passport to enter ANY store or do anything and I wish that were the case here in BC.

[Macblaze]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

I guess , but for an Omicron peak that could be over by Feb, it might actually be a legit excuse in this case.

You gotta admire a guy who still has faith in the WAGs that surround Covid "knowledge"