Canadian COVID-19 News

[Dieseldude]

Originally Posted by Greg K

Sadly, through no fault of your own, you and others here are poorly informed Gord. I urge anyone who has a genuine interest in finding out the truth about the NIAID, the CDC and the FDA to temporarily suspend any preconceived impressions you may have about Robert F. Kennedy Jr. and read his current book. It is well worth your time and effort.

https://www.simonandschuster.com/boo.../9781510766808

Thanks Greg for offering some sanity in this debate.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by danstanford

For what it is worth, I am fairly happy when an entity like the CDC change their minds. Instead of ruining their credibility I believe it adds to it by showing they are still looking and learning.

One of the more interesting aspects of this whole pandemic has been that all of us have been given a front row seat to how the process of science actually works. This pandemic began when a novel (meaning new) coronavirus began infecting humans. We started with very little knowledge, but through science, quickly expanded our understanding.

This process continues to this day. There is still much we don't understand about this virus. And the fact that it is mutating (as all living things do), makes it even harder. So what we think we know today can easily change as more and better information comes available.

This is how science works. As new and better knowledge comes on stream, scientists change their understanding and views about a given phenomena. But those that don't understand how science works see this and yell "flip flopped!", or accuse scientists and science-driven organizations of being part of some grand conspiracy.

I do hope that one of the lessons we remember from this pandemic is the piss-poor state of science education in some of our developed countries. Maybe there's a way to help these people who have fallen so far off the reality wagon.

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

One of the more interesting aspects of this whole pandemic has been that all of us have been given a front row seat to how the process of science actually works. This pandemic began when a novel (meaning new) coronavirus began infecting humans. We started with very little knowledge, but through science, quickly expanded our understanding.

This process continues to this day. There is still much we don't understand about this virus. And the fact that it is mutating (as all living things do), makes it even harder. So what we think we know today can easily change as more and better information comes available.

This is how science works. As new and better knowledge comes on stream, scientists change their understanding and views about a given phenomena. But those that don't understand how science works see this and yell "flip flopped!", or accuse scientists and science-driven organizations of being part of some grand conspiracy.

I do hope that one of the lessons we remember from this pandemic is the piss-poor state of science education in some of our developed countries. Maybe there's a way to help these people who have fallen so far off the reality wagon.

We've learned a little about science, and a lot about how it gets distorted by politicians and the media, for their own purposes.

Masking? Watch Fauci and the CDC's guidance, and how it changed over time. They weren't following science, they were just trying to stop people from panicking. We didn't have a stockpile of effective masks. Understandable, but not science. Science is clear and transparent. I'll give them a pass on this one, however, as my wife is a health care worker.

The media and the role of the lab in Wuhan? Eh, absolutely not science. Remember when the media said the virus couldn't have come from the lab in Wuhan? They hedged the story around nuanced wording between "created" and "leaked". Sort of a subtle change of subject. Then, a year later, they rolled it back.

Remember when we were washing our groceries? That wasn't science. That was WAGs about how the virus was spread. An abundance of caution, but not really science.

Border closures? When Trump closed them, it was racist. When Biden did it, it was science. Though the way both of them did it was absolutely unscientific. You want to stop the virus, you have to stop or quarantine ALL travelers, not just non-citizens. THAT would have been science.

Vaccinating kids? What are the actual numbers for seriously ill children from omicron? Do they indicate school closures? Do they indicate that all children should be vaccinated? If we were making the decision based on individual risk, there should be no problem putting the numbers in all the articles advocating it. Maybe these solutions are indicated, but not from any article I've actually read.

If we were actually going with the science, at this point we'd probably be shifting our covid policies towards protecting the vulnerable, instead of pretending the goal is to stop the spread 100%. What are the odds that a healthy person under 60 are going to die of omicron, even if they aren't vaccinated?

No, we haven't learned so much about science as we learned about how public policy gets distorted based on the political needs of those calling the shots, and their friends in the media.

I'd prefer more science and transparency, and less advocacy in the media. And I'd absolutely prefer people not to pretend that anyone who disagrees with their politics is an imbecile.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

This is how science works. As new and better knowledge comes on stream, scientists change their understanding and views about a given phenomena. But those that don't understand how science works see this and yell "flip flopped!", or accuse scientists and science-driven organizations of being part of some grand conspiracy.

Noooo! You're wrong! Science is like stamp collecting! The rarer and more dubious a stamp, the better it is! The most prized stamps are the ones with flaws.


And supporting experts - again, like stamps, you only need one! (... Spencer, Spencer, Spencer... oops ) Like the proven nutter (here in fall 2020 telling us that the pandemic is over ) used to back an assertion that 97% of PCR test positives are false.

Reality is haaaaard, maan...

[Thumbs Up]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

One of the more interesting aspects of this whole pandemic has been that all of us have been given a front row seat to how the process of science actually works. This pandemic began when a novel (meaning new) coronavirus began infecting humans. We started with very little knowledge, but through science, quickly expanded our understanding.

This process continues to this day. There is still much we don't understand about this virus. And the fact that it is mutating (as all living things do), makes it even harder. So what we think we know today can easily change as more and better information comes available.

This is how science works. As new and better knowledge comes on stream, scientists change their understanding and views about a given phenomena. But those that don't understand how science works see this and yell "flip flopped!", or accuse scientists and science-driven organizations of being part of some grand conspiracy.

I do hope that one of the lessons we remember from this pandemic is the piss-poor state of science education in some of our developed countries. Maybe there's a way to help these people who have fallen so far off the reality wagon.

You understand how science works Mike? You won't even quote any scientists. I am asking for the umpteenth time for you to list your experts. You won't do it, You can't do it. Or even just post some of this science of which you speak. It is obvious that you receive a pittance for writing this crap. What you speak of is science by press releases. Science by decree. Convicted felon corporations that are allowed to do their own safety testing is what you call science. REAL science questions that paradigm. Like it or not! Your reality wagon is a propaganda wagon and you are part of it. You say you are a paid science journalist. Link us to some of your drivel. Prove me wrong!

[Dieseldude]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

One of the more interesting aspects of this whole pandemic has been that all of us have been given a front row seat to how the process of science actually works. This pandemic began when a novel (meaning new) coronavirus began infecting humans. We started with very little knowledge, but through science, quickly expanded our understanding.

This process continues to this day. There is still much we don't understand about this virus. And the fact that it is mutating (as all living things do), makes it even harder. So what we think we know today can easily change as more and better information comes available.

This is how science works. As new and better knowledge comes on stream, scientists change their understanding and views about a given phenomena. But those that don't understand how science works see this and yell "flip flopped!", or accuse scientists and science-driven organizations of being part of some grand conspiracy.

I do hope that one of the lessons we remember from this pandemic is the piss-poor state of science education in some of our developed countries. Maybe there's a way to help these people who have fallen so far off the reality wagon.

A rose colored summary by M.O. If this "pandemic" response is typical is how science is practiced, the realm of science has a lot of renovating to do. The many inconsistencies on even basic things like human to human transmission, mask wearing, and travel indicate massive incompetence and corruption. The excuse that this was a novel virus does not stand. Viral respiratory diseases all spread by the same means, so there is no excuse for inconsistencies over masks, distancing, travel bans, lock downs, etc.


The idea that non symptomatic people can be diagnosed as having COVID by PCR test is another misconception. This test is at the root of many problems, as it was misapplied. It is incapable of diagnosing any disease. Yet data from it was relied upon for planning. Releasing unproven injections on a grand scale has to be the most irresponsible move. Even early adverse reactions and deaths have been ignored. A scary potential problem is that nobody knows what long term effects might yet appear. Many millions who were were conned or coerced into taking the jab could be living on borrowed time. They could suffer some incurable ailment yet and become a burden to themselves and society. The pattern of sloppy science and political meddling and corruption continues through to this moment.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

Masking? Watch Fauci and the CDC's guidance, and how it changed over time. They weren't following science, they were just trying to stop people from panicking. We didn't have a stockpile of effective masks. Understandable, but not science. Science is clear and transparent. I'll give them a pass on this one, however, as my wife is a health care worker.

They initially put a damper on the public use of N95 masks which were in short supply (logistics, not science, yes), and then, as they considered how the virus was actually spreading, advised people to use BASIC masks to reduce the spread from infected people, when having to go out in public. Absolutely science-based. (and practical too, as proven by pre-COVID mask usage in many Asian countries)

The media and the role of the lab in Wuhan? Eh, absolutely not science. Remember when the media said the virus couldn't have come from the lab in Wuhan? They hedged the story around nuanced wording between "created" and "leaked". Sort of a subtle change of subject. Then, a year later, they rolled it back.

The media don't create this stuff, they report it. But sure, blame media.

Border closures? When Trump closed them, it was racist. When Biden did it, it was science. Though the way both of them did it was absolutely unscientific. You want to stop the virus, you have to stop or quarantine ALL travelers, not just non-citizens. THAT would have been science.

Shhhh, your politics are showing...

Vaccinating kids? What are the actual numbers for seriously ill children from omicron? Do they indicate school closures? Do they indicate that all children should be vaccinated? If we were making the decision based on individual risk, there should be no problem putting the numbers in all the articles advocating it. Maybe these solutions are indicated, but not from any article I've actually read.

If we were actually going with the science, at this point we'd probably be shifting our covid policies towards protecting the vulnerable, instead of pretending the goal is to stop the spread 100%. What are the odds that a healthy person under 60 are going to die of omicron, even if they aren't vaccinated?

Well, first we have to bat down your assumption that the point of vaccination and other measures is to "stop the spread 100%". It's not. (and btw, at least in Canada, we've done just about all we can now to protect the vulnerable. And it's worked.) We all have a management problem - we have fatigued and increasingly noncompliant populations, battered economies, and overstressed healthcare. We seek the right combination of measures to just keep going, preventing further breakdowns, with the least possible restrictions.

Every country(or state or province) has done something slightly different. Nobody has got it 100% right. And I don't think the US has a whole lot to tell other countries about saving lives from COVID.

[Macblaze]

Sigh. Now we've done it. Welcome to TrollHöme.

So BC is opening gyms (Alberta's never closed this round). Makes me cautiously optimistic that I might see my boat. I am in the process of ordering new sails and if this thing crashes again in spring I will have bought a new RIB, a new windlass and new sails for a boat I don't get to sail.

I am liking the curve; hopefully we can keep from turning into another wave.

[danstanford]

Originally Posted by Dieseldude

A rose colored summary by M.O. If this "pandemic" response is typical is how science is practiced, the realm of science has a lot of renovating to do. The many inconsistencies on even basic things like human to human transmission, mask wearing, and travel indicate massive incompetence and corruption. The excuse that this was a novel virus does not stand. Viral respiratory diseases all spread by the same means, so there is no excuse for inconsistencies over masks, distancing, travel bans, lock downs, etc.


The idea that non symptomatic people can be diagnosed as having COVID by PCR test is another misconception. This test is at the root of many problems, as it was misapplied. It is incapable of diagnosing any disease. Yet data from it was relied upon for planning. Releasing unproven injections on a grand scale has to be the most irresponsible move. Even early adverse reactions and deaths have been ignored. A scary potential problem is that nobody knows what long term effects might yet appear. Many millions who were were conned or coerced into taking the jab could be living on borrowed time. They could suffer some incurable ailment yet and become a burden to themselves and society. The pattern of sloppy science and political meddling and corruption continues through to this moment.

Diesel, I have been pretty consistent in encouraging everyone yelling at the unvaccinated to stop doing so as it isn't working. I would like to encourage you to put out what you want people to read and understand and then to stop arguing.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Macblaze

Sigh. Now we've done it. Welcome to TrollHöme.

Yup... they must have been pushed out of the other threads, so like a virus they spread to other hosts.

Just ignore them. They either can't, or won't, operate in the fact-based world. So there's zero point in engaging with them. Don't respond, and certainly don't quote them. Attention is all they crave, so don't give it to them (and I know, this post may step over this line; sorry.).

Originally Posted by Macblaze

So BC is opening gyms (Alberta's never closed this round). Makes me cautiously optimistic that I might see my boat. I am in the process of ordering new sails and if this thing crashes again in spring I will have bought a new RIB, a new windlass and new sails for a boat I don't get to sail.

I am liking the curve; hopefully we can keep from turning into another wave.

Yes, there does seem to be some reason for optimism -- at least around this latest variant. My "glass 1/2 full" view is that I too might get to see my boat this Spring, and hopefully resume my Cruise, Interrupted lifestyle. Of course, my "glass 1/2 empty" view is that we're not done with the variants, so something else is probably coming at us that will keep me out of Newfoundland.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

... My "glass 1/2 full" view is that I too might get to see my boat this Spring, and hopefully resume my Cruise, Interrupted lifestyle. Of course, my "glass 1/2 empty" view is that we're not done with the variants, so something else is probably coming at us that will keep me out of Newfoundland.

Get a smaller glass!

[sv_pelagia]

Macblaze: I never understood why you didn't come out here last Summer (2021). Travel restrictions in BC (which were never enforced for travellers from other provinces) were ended by start of July.

NO travel restrictions in BC right now (for travellers from other provinces) and I feel confident they will not be here this summer (glass 3/4 full). So plan away!

[Tetepare]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Get a smaller glass!

That's horrible! *snicker*


New York State (part of which borders Ontario, CA) recently started separation of COVID hospitalizations that were admitted for something other than COVID but were found to have COVID. Statewide, that number was 33% of admissions.

What does this mean?

I guess it means that 33% of COVID-positive patients being admitted didn't know/ think they had COVID. It doesn't of course change the number of people admitted that have COVID.

It's not unlikely the Ontario is experiencing the same.

I found it interesting, though can't say much for the significance of it; somewhere there's something very interesting in there, but I can't figure out what.

[Macblaze]

Originally Posted by sv_pelagia

Macblaze: I never understood why you didn't come out here last Summer (2021). Travel restrictions in BC (which were never enforced for travellers from other provinces) were ended by start of July.

NO travel restrictions in BC right now (for travellers from other provinces) and I feel confident they will not be here this summer (glass 3/4 full). So plan away!

My sailing window is April to mid-June. Last spring just wasn't going to work and I try to do my bit to keep my own personal hypocrisy to a minimum.

My partner has a teaching gig at Royal Roads this May and we are hoping to live aboard there for 2 weeks and then head out. But Royal Roads has to make the call if the session will be in person relatively soon. So even if we make it out, we may find ourselves tied to a dock with good internet for half of our available cruising time

Anyone know what the anchoring is like in Esquimault?

[Thumbs Up]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Yup... they must have been pushed out of the other threads, so like a virus they spread to other hosts.

Just ignore them. They either can't, or won't, operate in the fact-based world. So there's zero point in engaging with them. Don't respond, and certainly don't quote them. Attention is all they crave, so don't give it to them (and I know, this post may step over this line; sorry.).



Yes, there does seem to be some reason for optimism -- at least around this latest variant. My "glass 1/2 full" view is that I too might get to see my boat this Spring, and hopefully resume my Cruise, Interrupted lifestyle. Of course, my "glass 1/2 empty" view is that we're not done with the variants, so something else is probably coming at us that will keep me out of Newfoundland.

Pushed out? More like instigated into an insult war by you and yours Mike. We have been polite by mostly leaving your Canadian thread to you Canucks. Of course you have to pretend to ignore me Mike (as you imitate my accusations i.e. can't or won't

Fine, ignore us. Ignorance is all you have. You can't debate the science, You won't list your experts. You just drivel away as you always do. You can have your echo chamber, you are not worth debating. And yes RFK jr's book, the bestseller (despite no press coverage), The Real Anthony Fauci, (which, sadly you and yours will never read) lays many facts bare, is extensively researched and footnoted and is yet to be refuted by anyone is a must read for those genuinely interested in "facts".
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08X5YWRRP...ng=UTF8&btkr=1