Canadian COVID-19 News

[Macblaze]

Originally Posted by Thumbs Up

As one of those threads was being shut down (with MO even apologizing and hanging his head in shame) someone suggested we come over here and give you guys a hard time.

[Scorpius]

Originally Posted by Thumbs Up

Over 17,000 doctors & scientists have signed the Rome Declaration:

Over 17,000 doctors and scientists put their reputations on the line to stand for these declarations but you guys fail to list a single expert.

I don't believe anyone on here has advocated forced vaccination of children. We've discussed mandatory vaccine for adults but have rejected it as an imposition on human rights (at least in Canada) and the top of a slippery slope.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Scorpius

I don't believe anyone on here has advocated forced vaccination of children. We've discussed mandatory vaccine for adults but have rejected it as an imposition on human rights (at least in Canada) and the top of a slippery slope.

These folks just love their straw men. But this is where the spread of disinformation has real world impacts. For example:

(CBC): Public outrage over the unvaccinated is driving a crisis in bioethics

Vaccinated majorities in wealthy western countries are growing increasingly impatient with a science-denying minority being blamed for prolonging the pandemic and stretching critical care resources to the breaking point.

Governments are responding to that anger by turning up the heat on the unvaccinated with policies intended to inconvenience them, curtail their social lives, drive them out of the public square, make them pay or even criminalize them — measures Ravitsky said are "politically meant to appease the vaccinated majority."

Quebec plans to impose a financial penalty on unvaccinated people who don't have medical exemptions.

As president of the International Association of Bioethics, Ravitsky has seen how the pandemic has tested a longstanding consensus of bioethics.

"Usually, bioethics is all about protecting and promoting the right of each patient to make their own decisions," she said. "And all of a sudden we find ourselves in a situation where the common good should sometimes be prioritized, and that has caused some unprecedented disagreements within the bioethics community."

Or even this:

(CBC): Sask. RCMP issue Canada-wide warrant for anti-vaccine dad charged with abducting daughter, 7

Saskatchewan RCMP have charged and issued a Canada-wide arrest warrant for a Carievale, Sask., man accused of abducting his daughter to prevent her getting vaccinated against COVID-19.

Michael Gordon Jackson, 52, is charged with one count of abduction in contravention of a custody or parenting order, RCMP said in a news release Friday evening.

It comes after CBC News reported earlier this month that the father fled with his seven-year-old daughter, Sarah, in mid-November to keep her from getting immunized against the coronavirus. Jackson's ex-wife, Mariecar Jackson, had wanted to get their daughter vaccinated, but Jackson did not.

[Delancey]

CF is pretty boomercentric so it makes sense there would be a lot of super paranoid people here. After all, in the US at least, like 80% of the people who have actually died from this disease are over the age of 65, 50% died are over the age of 80.

I was scarred initially but I got over it once the data revealed this disease wasn’t a very serious threat to like 99% of the population. I recently left my progressive blue state to visit Florida. It was nice to see people unafraid and enjoying life, quite the contrast. Worrying is bad for your health, people should get out more (just please don’t wear a mask when you are outside walking around by yourself).

Unfortunately, the real victims of this whole mess are the ones at like 0% risk from the actual disease and yet they will assuredly suffer the consequences for the rest of their lives. Gen Z and Gen Alpha are totally screwed in their emotional development as the result of the lockdowns and will lack necessary skills as adults to cope with the economic legacy resultant from a lot of bad decisions that have been made.

I know boomers are pretty widely regarded as the most selfish generation. The world’s COVID response would seem to echo this notion. My wife is a school teacher, kids are messed up. Oh well. Fed money printer go brrrr!

[sv_pelagia]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

These folks just love their straw men. But this is where the spread of disinformation has real world impacts. For example:

(CBC): Public outrage over the unvaccinated is driving a crisis in bioethics

Just read this article. I too am not comfortable with a triage policy that "de-prioritizes" (a term used in the article) ICU treatment of unvaccinated over vaccinated (although, using the "who is more likely to survive" determination may, in practice, result in this).

But, according to the article, it seems a majority of Canadians support such an idea. (Caveat: I've not seen a poll indicating this.)

Is this a case of "reap what you sow"?

Optimistically, we won't have to get to this point.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by sv_pelagia

Just read this article. I too am not comfortable with a triage policy that "de-prioritizes" (a term used in the article) ICU treatment of unvaccinated over vaccinated (although, using the "who is more likely to survive" determination may, in practice, result in this).

But, according to the article, it seems a majority of Canadians support such an idea. (Caveat: I've not seen a poll indicating this.)

Is this a case of "reap what you sow"?

Optimistically, we won't have to get to this point.

Agree. I also think this is a very dangerous path, as we've discussed here in the context of the Quebec tax measures. And I too think/hope we don't go anywhere near this kind of triaging.

But I do understand the reaction. The few continue to make it worse for the many. I keep saying we are rich enough, and strong enough, to carry these free-riders. I still believe this. But there is a real cost to all of us, and some are (understandably) frustrated.

P.S. Yes, it's nice to see the clear admission that this infection of the Canadian Covid thread by the anti-crowd is a coordinated action. Indeed, all of CF is being targeted by these folks. As their digital worlds shrink, they get pushed to platforms with less ability to restrict their disinformation.

[TrentePieds]

Quote: "The debate here is beginning to look like a fractal of the American political system (so VERY different from the Canadian one)"

Well, yes. But we can take it. We have plenty of practice :-)!

Few Americans seem to be aware that Canadian history consists of three hundred years of sidestepping or actively opposing notions and opinions emanating from the US and the colonies that engendered it.

No need to even acknowledge such notions when they are proposed by individuals with no actual political power.

TP

[Scorpius]

Originally Posted by Delancey

CF is pretty boomercentric so it makes sense there would be a lot of super paranoid people here. After all, in the US at least, like 80% of the people who have actually died from this disease are over the age of 65, 50% died are over the age of 80.

I was scarred initially but I got over it once the data revealed this disease wasn’t a very serious threat to like 99% of the population. I recently left my progressive blue state to visit Florida. It was nice to see people unafraid and enjoying life, quite the contrast. Worrying is bad for your health, people should get out more (just please don’t wear a mask when you are outside walking around by yourself).

Unfortunately, the real victims of this whole mess are the ones at like 0% risk from the actual disease and yet they will assuredly suffer the consequences for the rest of their lives. Gen Z and Gen Alpha are totally screwed in their emotional development as the result of the lockdowns and will lack necessary skills as adults to cope with the economic legacy resultant from a lot of bad decisions that have been made.

I know boomers are pretty widely regarded as the most selfish generation. The world’s COVID response would seem to echo this notion. My wife is a school teacher, kids are messed up. Oh well. Fed money printer go brrrr!

The seems to ignore the fact that, although young people are much less likely to suffer severely from the disease, they can carry it to the more vulnerable.

However, note that, with the arrival and entrenchment of Omicron, public policy, even here in Canada, is pivoting towards accepting the disease as endemic in the population. Schools ARE open in most provinces and restrictions are being lifted. But our health care system is still severely stressed and is being critically damaged for the long term by the still very high numbers of very sick Covid patients requiring treatment - particularly in the ICU's. Critical surgeries for cancer and heart disease are being postponed, and people are dying, because too many staff are off sick themselves - or have left the field (for good) due to burn out.

We MUST get the number of Covid victims, not all of them boomers, in hospital down in order to preserve our health care system for all Canadians, for all afflictions. To that end, some restrictions must remain in order to flatten the waves.

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by sv_pelagia

Just read this article. I too am not comfortable with a triage policy that "de-prioritizes" (a term used in the article) ICU treatment of unvaccinated over vaccinated (although, using the "who is more likely to survive" determination may, in practice, result in this).

But, according to the article, it seems a majority of Canadians support such an idea. (Caveat: I've not seen a poll indicating this.)

Is this a case of "reap what you sow"?

Optimistically, we won't have to get to this point.

The irony, of course, is that vaccinated people are spreading COVID, not just unvaccinated people, and even if we were 100% vaccinated, omicron would be ripping through the population at record rates (and is).

[Scorpius]

Originally Posted by Delancey

CF is pretty boomercentric so it makes sense there would be a lot of super paranoid people here. After all, in the US at least, like 80% of the people who have actually died from this disease are over the age of 65, 50% died are over the age of 80.

I was scarred initially but I got over it once the data revealed this disease wasn’t a very serious threat to like 99% of the population. I recently left my progressive blue state to visit Florida. It was nice to see people unafraid and enjoying life, quite the contrast. Worrying is bad for your health, people should get out more (just please don’t wear a mask when you are outside walking around by yourself).

Unfortunately, the real victims of this whole mess are the ones at like 0% risk from the actual disease and yet they will assuredly suffer the consequences for the rest of their lives. Gen Z and Gen Alpha are totally screwed in their emotional development as the result of the lockdowns and will lack necessary skills as adults to cope with the economic legacy resultant from a lot of bad decisions that have been made.

I know boomers are pretty widely regarded as the most selfish generation. The world’s COVID response would seem to echo this notion. My wife is a school teacher, kids are messed up. Oh well. Fed money printer go brrrr!

Oh yes, and I meant to add: Is that a real picture from the US treasury? I thought it was more sophisticated than that.

[Scorpius]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

The irony, of course, is that vaccinated people are spreading COVID, not just unvaccinated people, and even if we were 100% vaccinated, omicron would be ripping through the population at record rates (and is).

True, but at half the rate of the unvaccinated - and the vaccinated are generally not getting anywhere near as sick as the unvaccinated.

[Mike OReilly]

It's certainly true here in Canada that the vast majority of Covid-19 deaths have been registered by people over 60. By my current tally of the stats it's over 90%.

But it's not true that this is a disease that only impacts the aged. There are far more people under 40 with the disease now than over. And while severe infections (as measured by the need for hospitalization) are still the domain of older folks, those under 30 now make up nearly 10%. Even those 11 and under now represent 1.6% of the Covid-19 hospital, which is by no means a small amount.

https://health-infobase.canada.ca/co...-19-cases.html

[Delancey]

Part of my disillusionment and losing my fear was gained through discussions with someone married to a hospital administrator. He helped me appreciate the fact that hospitals in the US make money treating sick people and that they make more money by not being over-staffed.

This became real obvious when the vaxx mandates came into effect for health care workers and they started firing people formerly know as “heroes” for not getting the jab.

I always envied Canada’s health care system but am I mistaken that the same basic economic principles apply to your system? Your hospitals are being “overrun” because the willpower doesn’t exist to pay for greater healthcare resources across the board?

[N Coast Murray]

Originally Posted by Scorpius

...We MUST get the number of Covid victims, not all of them boomers, in hospital down in order to preserve our health care system for all Canadians, for all afflictions. To that end, some restrictions must remain in order to flatten the waves.

An example of these impacts here in BC...a 14 year old boy who needs back surgery, is 1,200 Kilometres from home and his surgery has been scheduled then cancelled four times in the last six weeks:

https://globalnews.ca/video/8531402/...dire-situation

[hedgeworth]

Originally Posted by Delancey

Part of my disillusionment and losing my fear was gained through discussions with someone married to a hospital administrator. He helped me appreciate the fact that hospitals in the US make money treating sick people and that they make more money by not being over-staffed.

This became real obvious when the vaxx mandates came into effect for health care workers and they started firing people formerly know as “heroes” for not getting the jab.

I always envied Canada’s health care system but am I mistaken that the same basic economic principles apply to your system? Your hospitals are being “overrun” because the willpower doesn’t exist to pay for greater healthcare resources across the board?

We spend more on healthcare than just about every country on the planet. I think the real problem is unvaccinated people clogging up the system. But that’s not really the answer you want to hear is it?