Canadian COVID-19 News

[Scorpius]

Originally Posted by Delancey

Part of my disillusionment and losing my fear was gained through discussions with someone married to a hospital administrator. He helped me appreciate the fact that hospitals in the US make money treating sick people and that they make more money by not being over-staffed.

This became real obvious when the vaxx mandates came into effect for health care workers and they started firing people formerly know as “heroes” for not getting the jab.

I always envied Canada’s health care system but am I mistaken that the same basic economic principles apply to your system? Your hospitals are being “overrun” because the willpower doesn’t exist to pay for greater healthcare resources across the board?

Quite true - and there was quite a discussion on this thread, on this very topic, a couple of months ago. Even in "normal" (non-pandemic) times, our health care system is stretched thin. Hospitals are not "for profit" but they still have finite, limited, expenditure budgets established by the provincial governments.

[Scorpius]

Originally Posted by hedgeworth

We spend more on healthcare than just about every country on the planet. I think the real problem is unvaccinated people clogging up the system. But that’s not really the answer you want to hear is it?

Who is "we"? You don't show a location. Are you in Canada? Are you Canadian?

[N Coast Murray]

Originally Posted by Delancey

...I always envied Canada’s health care system but am I mistaken that the same basic economic principles apply to your system? Your hospitals are being “overrun” because the willpower doesn’t exist to pay for greater healthcare resources across the board?

Each Province decides how they will spend monies coming from the federal government earmarked for healthcare.

As far as I know, there is a commitment to do a deep dive into this relationship by all parties, but only when some semblance of normalcy returns.

Going to be interesting for sure.

[Delancey]

Originally Posted by hedgeworth

We spend more on healthcare than just about every country on the planet. I think the real problem is unvaccinated people clogging up the system. But that’s not really the answer you want to hear is it?

Three posts. Lol! I am not anti-vax, I am pro-choice and I am not a hypocrite about it either. Buts that’s not really the answer you want to hear is it?

[sv_pelagia]

Originally Posted by Delancey

Part of my disillusionment and losing my fear was gained through discussions with someone married to a hospital administrator. He helped me appreciate the fact that hospitals in the US make money treating sick people and that they make more money by not being over-staffed.

This became real obvious when the vaxx mandates came into effect for health care workers and they started firing people formerly know as “heroes” for not getting the jab.

I always envied Canada’s health care system but am I mistaken that the same basic economic principles apply to your system? Your hospitals are being “overrun” because the willpower doesn’t exist to pay for greater healthcare resources across the board?

It is not one "system". Each province/territory has it's own "system". The Canada Health Act sets down standards, and each jurisdiction works within (and some perhaps around) this act.

I would agree that the political willpower does not exist to increase healthcare resources. But that is due in some part to the taxpayers concerns about increasing spending and increasing taxes.

The shortcomings exposed by this pandemic seem to be moving some folks towards greater expenditures (I include myself in this group).

One note: in the main, here in Canada, hospitals do not "make money treating sick people". There is no profit motive.

[hedgeworth]

Originally Posted by Scorpius

Who is "we"? You don't show a location. Are you in Canada? Are you Canadian?

Sorry yes American. Was replying to a comment that basically America’s for-profit healthcare system might lack for resources. The truth is we spend more than most. But we also have more than our fair share of unvaxed people as opposed to Canada. (Most of them seem to share similar views as Mr. Up.) When one compares the Canadian and American healthcare systems it’s hard to argue that the US is just not spending enough money.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Delancey

Unfortunately, the real victims of this whole mess are the ones at like 0% risk from the actual disease and yet they will assuredly suffer the consequences for the rest of their lives. Gen Z and Gen Alpha are totally screwed in their emotional development as the result of the lockdowns and will lack necessary skills as adults to cope with the economic legacy resultant from a lot of bad decisions that have been made.

The pandemic is maybe this generation's WW II. As horrible as it was, WW II also produced "The Greatest Generation". I have faith that the young will find their way, and and overcome the setbacks caused by the pandemic.

The biggest obstacle to progress and moving on is... us boomers clinging to political power. We suck. If someone proposed a law that every elected politician MUST retire at age 50, I would vote for it.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

The irony, of course, is that vaccinated people are spreading COVID, not just unvaccinated people, and even if we were 100% vaccinated, omicron would be ripping through the population at record rates (and is).

Why is that ironic? The vaccinated still catch Omicron, but at a lower rate. They might get sick, but will be much less likely to have severe illness than the unvaccinated. They are less likely to spread it. And yes Omicron is ripping through, and you already know who makes up a disproportionately hig number of the hospitalized.

How does any of this argue against vaccination, including kids? it makes no sense to leave a large pool of unvaccinated kids when we are still at the pandemic stage.

[Delancey]

Originally Posted by hedgeworth

Sorry yes American. Was replying to a comment that basically America’s for-profit healthcare system might lack for resources. The truth is we spend more than most. But we also have more than our fair share of unvaxed people as opposed to Canada. (Most of them seem to share similar views as Mr. Up.) When one compares the Canadian and American healthcare systems it’s hard to argue that the US is just not spending enough money.

Don’t misrepresent me. I didn’t say we don’t spend enough money in the US. One man’s “hospitals are being overrun” is another man’s “management needs to hire enough people to handle the work load” says multiple people I know who work in healthcare.

[hedgeworth]

Originally Posted by Delancey

Three posts. Lol! I am not anti-vax, I am pro-choice and I am not a hypocrite about it either. Buts that’s not really the answer you want to hear is it?

I don’t recall asking a question. Perhaps you’re thinking of someone else?

[hedgeworth]

Originally Posted by Delancey

Don’t misrepresent me. I didn’t say we don’t spend enough money in the US. One man’s “hospitals are being overrun” is another man’s “management needs to hire enough people to handle the work load” says multiple people I know who work in healthcare.

I promise I’m not trying to represent you. At all.

I’m merely suggesting that for Canada and the US, solutions live more in the area of behavioral issues than financial ones.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Delancey

One man’s “hospitals are being overrun” is another man’s “management needs to hire enough people to handle the work load” says multiple people I know who work in healthcare.

I have had the same thoughts. it often seems to me that there aren't enough preparations for the feared surges. But I also have to acknowledge that I'm not 100% up to speed with what preparations have been made.

I also fear that our hard-working healthcare workers will once again carry the load, and Canada will muddle through again, and then government will say "There, told ya we were prepared enough".

[Mike OReilly]

Lets not get dragged back into an anti-vaxx narrative. Just like we're turning the tide on the Omicron wave, I feel we're turning the tide back to more rational Canadian discussion.

Originally Posted by Delancey
...I always envied Canada’s health care system but am I mistaken that the same basic economic principles apply to your system? Your hospitals are being “overrun” because the willpower doesn’t exist to pay for greater healthcare resources across the board?

As Scorpius mentions, we already had a fulsome discussion this exact point a few dozen pages ago. You might want to go back and re-read if you're actually interested. But in short, yes, the same challenges face our healthcare systemS.

In fact, years of cost-cutting of our public systems have created exactly what was intended: a lean(er), mean(er) healthcare machiners . We've prioritized efficiency over resiliency, largely in an effort to keep costs under control. And in this case, costs mean taxes. Under the drum-beat of "lower taxes!" healthcare (and other areas like education and other social spending) has been limited and proportionally reduced.

Canada used to rank #2 in the world in per-capita healthcare spending. We now rank something like #12 as measured against our peer nations. The same trends are seen in a metrics like doctor to patient ratios, nursing numbers, hospital beds per capita, etc...

This approach means we've tailored our systems to manage the normal flow of patients, but have little buffer to manage upsurges. And Covid-19 has been a massive upsurge.

I don't know what the right answer is with regard to how much contingency should be built into our systems. I do know if Canadians want our systems to be able to better respond to events like Covid-19, it will cost more than we're currently spending. And that means higher taxes -- something no one likes.

[sv_pelagia]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

And that means higher taxes -- something no one likes.

I don't mind paying higher taxes if they go to improving healthcare (as well as infrastructure poverty, etc)

[Scorpius]

There just concluded a very interesting item on Day Six on the CBC interviewing a number of hospital health care workers across Canada about the load the Omicron wave is putting on them and the damage it is doing to the system. It was very sobering. Remember that only a TINY fraction of the population (in pretty well any country) being severely ill can overload the hospital system. We MUST keep the number of infections down if we are to get through this.