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hedgeworth · 23-01-2022, 08:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

What isn't true? Everything I've stated is current scientific fact. It might change as we learn more, but this is the state of knowledge.

Mike your typical Canadian kindness isn’t going to work on folks like this.

I’m an American though, so hold my beer…

I think you’re going to find that when it comes to dealing with low information representatives of the American right, that the juice just isn’t worth the squeeze. They swim in a pool of warm and comforting cognitive dissonance.

You’re not just asking this guy to change his view on vaccines. You’re asking him to change his view that he — as an individual — is more important than the society as a whole that he lives in. Not gonna happen.

The Marlboro man was an American icon of the rugged individualism that settled the West. He died of lung cancer.

Lake-Effect · 23-01-2022, 08:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

... you can spread covid without symptoms.

One of the main reasons this virus is so contagious is that it's spread by aerosol. Doesn't require sneezing or coughing to spread. Just breathing.

It's not a two-state system (contagious or not). There are degrees of contagiousness, and an infected person who coughs or sneezes in public is going to spray more virus around than just by merely breathing.

It's through using as many measures as possible- vaccination, masks, avoiding (or cancelling) gatherings and crowds, social distancing, isolating when ill, etc - that reduces spread, which hopefully keeps the illness within our capacity to manage. COVID will exit the pandemic stage when enough of us have acquired some immunity that normal life won't result in COVID surges that overwhelm us.

Again, not a binary (infectious ve not infectious).

Scorpius · 23-01-2022, 08:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

Most of this post just isn't true. I'd like you to post your source. Make sure it's a recent one.

Do some reading on it. This vaccine by it's very design doesn't prevent infection. It does reduce symptoms, but you can spread covid without symptoms.

One of the main reasons this virus is so contagious is that it's spread by aerosol. Doesn't require sneezing or coughing to spread. Just breathing.

Not true. To catch the disease requires inhaling sufficient viruses for them to establish a viable colony. The actual number varies by individual but the principle remains valid.

Yes, an infected individual exudes virus by exhaling - but he (or she) exudes FAR more when coughing or sneezing. All other things being equal, the air in an environment where infected people are coughing or sneezing will have FAR more viruses floating around than an environment where infected people (or an infected person) are simply exhaling.

The risk of an uninfected person becoming infected is proportional to the virus load in the air around him or her. Hence coughing and sneezing infected people are much more likely to spread the disease than are those who are simply breathing.

Delancey · 23-01-2022, 08:16

Lol! Maybe you guys could BUILD A WALL around this thread to keep the non-Canadians out?

Lake-Effect · 23-01-2022, 08:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

So, it is symptomatic virus carriers who are the primary sources of spread.

I haven't seen any study to support this. I don't even know how that could be proven, and it's the basis for your entire belief system, and criticism of the unvaccinated.

I think you are misrepresenting the point. Which is that, all other things being equal, a symptomatic person is a greater risk to public health than an asymptomatic one. And from this, we get to the truth of the statement that, again, all other things being equal, a person who is more likely to catch and get ill from COVID (because they're not vaccinated) poses the greater risk to public health.

The more people vaccinated, the lower the risk to EVERYONE, including the unvaccinated.

sv_pelagia · 23-01-2022, 08:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delancey

Lol! Maybe you guys could BUILD A WALL around this thread to keep the non-Canadians out?

No, not really. But we do want to keep out issues not related/relevant to the topic of COVID-19 in Canada. For example, using examples that are primarily related to a profit-driven health care "system" such as those found in the USA is often irrelevant to the situation here in Canada.

Similarly, Canada's Charter of Rights and Freedoms is different in many ways from the USA Constitution (e. g., many limitations on so-called personal liberties ARE allowed in Canada for social good/safety), so when discussing "freedoms" in this thread, it should be from the Canadian perspective.

hedgeworth · 23-01-2022, 08:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delancey

Lol! Maybe you guys could BUILD A WALL around this thread to keep the non-Canadians out?

There are a number of Americans commenting here. I think maybe they’re just trying to keep the nutbaggery to a minimum.

Mike OReilly · 23-01-2022, 08:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by sv_pelagia

No, not really. But we do want to keep out issues not related/relevant to the topic of COVID-19 in Canada. For example, using examples that are primarily related to a profit-driven health care "system" such as those found in the USA is often irrelevant to the situation here in Canada.

I'm happy to hear from everyone. As long as it is relevant to the CANADIAN perspective, then all are welcome.

Macblaze · 23-01-2022, 08:28

I'm going to take another swing at this and if it doesn't work then i will probably just unsub.

1 Title: Canadian Covid Thread
Topic: Covid in Canada and it effects on Canadians

This means it should be a discussion on the actual effects Canadians are enduring (hopefully mostly cruising related) due the various outcomes of the existence of Covid — not the moral outrage that surrounds the reasons (true, false, or specious) for those effects.

2 Name calling or label assigning: Grow up. All of you. And I don't know how many times I have read "he started it" but I do know it was more than I heard as a 7-year-old. There is no justification if you want to be heard. And isn't that what this pissing contest all about...being heard?

3. If you must — and seriously I don't know why you need or to want to — promote some part of your own particular world view in regards to Covid or anything else, could you please keep in mind that unless your post is actually making a legitimate attempt to convince a reader who you know disagrees with you, then you are just yelling at the clouds. Seriously, at this point no one — absolutely no one — doesn't have a pretty solid opinion on what Covid is or is not, and what the best course of action for them is going to be. Posts on Cruisers Forum isn't going to change that. Go evangelize somewhere else. Please.

Again, all I want is a place where I can read about the various mandates, likely scenarios, prognostications, government mandates (idiotic or not) and the occasional sharing of plans across this very, very big country. A lot of us aren't where we want to be and it has been extremely helpful to read about the state of affairs in other provinces. Can we jut get back to that? Please.

P.S. Not a single one of us knows what the effects of Covid are going to be 10, 15, or 20 years from now. Not the economic ones, not the social ones and not the health ones — whether from long covid or "experimental" vaccines. Right now scientists, health officials and governments are making their best guess and moving forward ... you know...leading... So can we just state our opinion (once) and let it rest. (Actually I have absolutely no hope or expectation that this last one is even possible with this bunch of bored opinionated sailors but its worth trying.)

Fingers crossed.

Scorpius · 23-01-2022, 08:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delancey

Lol! Maybe you guys could BUILD A WALL around this thread to keep the non-Canadians out?

Oh that we could!

**TrentePieds** · 23-01-2022, 08:29

Delancey said: "Lol! Maybe you guys could BUILD A WALL around this thread to keep the non-Canadians out?"

You mean non-Canadian opinions?

Not really necessary. We already have an agency for doing that. Please refer to the original mandate of the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation for that crown corporation's raison d'être.

Dealing with bellicose fragments of our neighbour nation is old hat for a great many of us, and I dare say that Scorpius' antagonist is not doing his motherland's reputation any favours :-)!

TP

Scorpius · 23-01-2022, 08:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

Delancey said: "Lol! Maybe you guys could BUILD A WALL around this thread to keep the non-Canadians out?"

You mean non-Canadian opinions?

Not really necessary. We already have an agency for doing that. Please refer to the original mandate of the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation for that crown corporation's raison d'être.

Dealing with bellicose fragments of our neighbour nation is old hat for a great many of us, and I dare say that Scorpius' antagonist is not doing his motherland's reputation any favours :-)!

TP

If it weren't such an existential topic it would be good fun - except for the personal attacks. It reminds me of high school debating competitions! Or "The Debaters". I wonder if we could get Steve Patterson as our moderator?

sv_pelagia · 23-01-2022, 08:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scorpius

If it weren't such an existential topic it would be good fun - except for the personal attacks. It reminds me of high school debating competitions! Or "The Debaters". I wonder if we could get Steve Patterson as our moderator? [emoji2]

Perhaps actually knowing answer to "Who is Steve Patterson?" should be a prerequisite to participating in this thread?