Canadian COVID-19 News

[N Coast Murray]

Originally Posted by Thumbs Up

...Anyone who has doubt about the ethics and sincerity and of corporate officers, elected and appointed government officials and professional journalists should be immediately discredited right?

If there is meat on the treatment bone you describe, double blind clinical trials/studies and confirmation through peer review and duplication of methods resulting in the same results will confirm efficacy.

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Well said, although I would offer a slight amendment. Immunity, through vaccination or exposure, does not reduce the change of catching the virus. The only thing that does that is by not being exposed; so distancing, masks, etc. What vaccination, or prior exposure, gives is a greatly enhanced ability to fight off the virus, so it does not develop into disease.

I know you know this LE, but for those unclear on the concept, Covid-19 is the disease. SARS-CoV-2 is the virus. The virus causes the disease, but just because you carry the virus, does not mean you will develop the disease.

Ah, I see TP has made the same point.

As for lets, I give up. The adage, "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink," seems apt here. In this case, you can lead a person to the information, but you can't make him understand.

Yes, a virus is different from a disease. But that's a distinction without a practical difference, which is why Fauci isn't wasting time explaining it. Like Lake Effect pointed out, covid is not like a light bulb that's turned on or off. And what we need is for people to have enough immunity so that they aren't hospitalized or killed when they come into contact with it.

What you're trying to avoid admitting is that vaccinated people are spreading covid. It's a fact. So blaming the unvaccinated is incorrect. And unnecessarily negative.

The pandemic is not the fault of the unvaccinated/anti-vaxxers/non-believers/alt-right/heretics. It doesn't so much matter whether people share your political beliefs. We're all just fellow travelers. And while I do think it's prudent to be vaccinated, mask when appropriate, and to social distance, it's going to become less and less important, as people develop better immunity, as the variants (hopefully) become weaker, and as our vaccines and treatments become better.

Covid is endemic at this point. It's time to change public health policies to reflect that, and it will be happening in the coming months. We need to get off the hysteria train, and get on with life.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by N Coast Murray

Well, considering how many people believe the Earth to be flat, it's not surprising some people would think Covid is nothing to worry about.

Hard to fight the numbers though:

Worldwide deaths per year to Influenza........650,000 (highest estimate I found)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6815659/

Worldwide deaths to Covid have obviously fluctuated, but seem to have stabilized at around 7,000 per day which is 2,555,000 deaths per year.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Yup, no problem there

Indeed.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

Yes, a virus is different from a disease. But that's a distinction without a practical difference, which is why Fauci isn't wasting time explaining it. Like Lake Effect pointed out, covid is not like a light bulb that's turned on or off. And what we need is for people to have enough immunity so that they aren't hospitalized or killed when they come into contact with it.

What you're trying to avoid admitting is that vaccinated people are spreading covid. It's a fact. So blaming the unvaccinated is incorrect. And unnecessarily negative.

The pandemic is not the fault of the unvaccinated/anti-vaxxers/non-believers/alt-right/heretics. It doesn't so much matter whether people share your political beliefs. We're all just fellow travelers. And while I do think it's prudent to be vaccinated, mask when appropriate, and to social distance, it's going to become less and less important, as people develop better immunity, as the variants (hopefully) become weaker, and as our vaccines and treatments become better.

Covid is endemic at this point. It's time to change public health policies to reflect that, and it will be happening in the coming months. We need to get off the hysteria train, and get on with life.

I am specifically NOT trying to avoid saying that "vaccinated people are spreading covid." If you actually read what I wrote, instead of imposing your biased view of what you think I said, then you would understand this. I specifically refer to symptomatic people. Not vaccinated or unvaccinated. That is partly why I went through the explanation about disease vs virus carrier.

Of course, vaccinated people who come down with the disease, and can spread it. What you're trying to avoid is the FACT that symptomatic individuals spread the virus far more than asymptomatic. This is a FACT for all respiratory diseases. And here's the linchpin... all the data shows unvaccinated people are getting sick (i.e. becoming symptomatic) at far greater rates than the vaccinated. Hence, they are spreading it at a far greater rate.

This is the whole point around developing herd immunity. If we can get enough people protected, we can stop the spread of the virus, and therefore stop the pandemic. Herd immunity can develop through natural exposure, or through vaccination. The problem is, natural exposure harms and kills magnitudes more people than the vaccines.

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Of course, vaccinated people who come down with the disease, and can spread it. What you're trying to avoid is the FACT that symptomatic individuals spread the virus far more than asymptomatic. This is a FACT for all respiratory diseases. And here's the linchpin... all the data shows unvaccinated people are getting sick (i.e. becoming symptomatic) at far greater rates than the vaccinated. Hence, they are spreading it at a far greater rate.

I believe what the data shows is that both the vaccinated and unvaccinated are getting, and spreading omicron. Nobody (except for you, apparently) is tracing to the level necessary to know who gave it to whom.

At a certain point (and we're way past that) it becomes silly to scapegoat people.

[sv_pelagia]

Whatever, what IS clear is that hospitalization and ICU are disproportionately among the unvaccinated, hence greater stress on our health care systems. As a result, non-Covid patients requiring surgery etc are being cancelled.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

Covid is endemic at this point. It's time to change public health policies to reflect that, and it will be happening in the coming months. We need to get off the hysteria train, and get on with life.

COVID is not yet endemic. It's not that far away, but it would be irresponsible to declare the pandemic "over" just yet. Remember the hubris behind another famous premature eja... um, declaration:

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by N Coast Murray

Well, considering how many people believe the Earth to be flat, it's not surprising some people would think Covid is nothing to worry about.

Hard to fight the numbers though:

Worldwide deaths per year to Influenza........650,000 (highest estimate I found)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6815659/

Worldwide deaths to Covid have obviously fluctuated, but seem to have stabilized at around 7,000 per day which is 2,555,000 deaths per year.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Yup, no problem there

The 1918 flu killed between 50 and 100 million people. About 3-5% of the world's population.

That said, I haven't heard anyone say that covid is nothing to worry about.

It's becoming endemic, so people need to get used to living with it, and living in a world where other people assess the risks a little differently than them. For better or for worse.

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

COVID is not yet endemic. It's not that far away, but it would be irresponsible to declare the pandemic "over" just yet. Remember the hubris behind another famous premature eja... um, declaration:

Endemic doesn't mean it's over.

Endemic means it's so prevalent that you have to accept it.

[N Coast Murray]

Originally Posted by sv_pelagia

Whatever, what IS clear is that hospitalization and ICU are disproportionately among the unvaccinated, hence greater stress on our health care systems. As a result, non-Covid patients requiring surgery etc are being cancelled.

Bingo.

It is also relevant to remember (beyond the patient/healthcare worker suffering aspect) that this is a Canadian thread, and that we have a publicly funded healthcare system so it makes financial/taxation sense to keep hospitalizations down.

[N Coast Murray]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

Endemic doesn't mean it's over.

Endemic means it's so prevalent that you have to accept it.

No...endemic means it is hovering in the background (like the Flu) and isn't stressing the healthcare system.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

I believe what the data shows is that both the vaccinated and unvaccinated are getting, and spreading omicron. Nobody (except for you, apparently) is tracing to the level necessary to know who gave it to whom.

At a certain point (and we're way past that) it becomes silly to scapegoat people.

You keep missing the simple point. Yes, both can get infected, and both can develop the disease, and both can spread it. But the RATE of disease development is much higher in the unvaccinated. Therefore, they spread it at a higher rate.

For g-d sake, why do you think every child is taught to cover the face and nose when they cough or sneeze? Seriously... you are doing mental backflips to try and avoid something as plain as seeing that the sky is blue.

And it's not scapegoating. It's describing reality.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by N Coast Murray

No...endemic means it is hovering in the background (like the Flu) and isn't stressing the healthcare system.

Actually, endemic just means it exists as part of our ecosystem. It doesn't say anything about the level of the virus, or how dangerous it may be. Raccoons are endemic to most urban environments. But this doesn't say anything about their prevalence, or how much damage they can do.

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Actually, endemic just means it exists as part of our ecosystem. It doesn't say anything about the level of the virus, or how dangerous it may be. Raccoons are endemic to most urban environments. But this doesn't say anything about their prevalence, or how much damage they can do.

endemic

ĕn-dĕm′ĭk
adjective

1. Prevalent in or limited to a particular locality, region, or people.
2. Native to or limited to a certain region.
3. Common in or inherent to an enterprise or situation.

[sv_pelagia]

The 1918 flu killed between 50 and 100 million people. About 3-5% of the world's population.

We didn't have antibiotics back in 1918. Death rate would have been markedly less in 1918 with antibiotics.

Meanwhile, in 2020-2022, we have antibiotics, antivirals, vaccines, high-pressure oxygen, ventilators, etc. Imagine the COVID-19 death rate if we only had 1918 medicine.

Apples and oranges.