Canadian COVID-19 News

[GordMay]

“Made-in-Canada solution to COVID-19 vaccine availability delayed due to unfinished construction”
More information here, than I care to summarise.
➥ https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canad...KMW?li=AAggNb9

[hpeer]

This tells you a LOT about our experts advice.

https://www.statista.com/chart/20629...c-or-pandemic/

And here is reality, per capita deaths.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by hpeer

This tells you a LOT about our experts advice.

https://www.statista.com/chart/20629...c-or-pandemic/

And here is reality, per capita deaths.

I think what this really says is scientists have a hard time accounting for human brain on politics .

I've no doubt that from a health care and infrastructure standpoint, the USA and the UK were one of the best positioned to manage this pandemic. But it's hard for healthcare scientists to have predicted that public health measures would become political footballs.

If you look at the map, the yellow areas (most prepared) which DIDN'T turn mask wearing into a political statement, have done quite well.

What would be interesting (to me, at least) is to overlay a map showing societal cohesiveness levels with the map showing Covid-19 infection rates. Again, my theory is that societies which can act collectively, either through high trust levels, or through more authoritarian actions, will show a better response to the pandemic.

[Macblaze]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I think what this really says is scientists have a hard time accounting for human brain on politics .

I've no doubt that from a health care and infrastructure standpoint, the USA and the UK were one of the best positioned to manage this pandemic. But it's hard for healthcare scientists to have predicted that public health measures would become political footballs.

If you look at the map, the yellow areas (most prepared) which DIDN'T turn mask wearing into a political statement, have done quite well.

What would be interesting (to me, at least) is to overlay a map showing societal cohesiveness levels with the map showing Covid-19 infection rates. Again, my theory is that societies which can act collectively, either through high trust levels, or through more authoritarian actions, will show a better response to the pandemic.

Also be interesting to see where the correlations are with the recent-ish upsurge of populist governments—which I guess is your point Mike.

[Macblaze]

Just to beat this dead horse some more...

...and pushed an early relaunch strategy that seemed more focused on the economy and avoiding the appearance of curtailing Albertans' freedoms than enforcing compliance to safeguard public health.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...ings-1.5814877

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Macblaze

Also be interesting to see where the correlations are with the recent-ish upsurge of populist governments—which I guess is your point Mike.

Indeed.

Another overlay would be to look at countries with high levels of trust in science vs countries with low levels. If we could get that down to provincial/state levels it would be even more interesting. Those national-level colour codings mask a lot of detail. Canada looks red, but in reality it is really just a few very hot spots that are driving the vast majority of our numbers (at least so far).

[desodave]

I think its inevitable that politics is working its way into decision making as some people are feeling the effects of the economic slowdown much worse than others while most people are much more worried about healthcare issues. All governments in Canada imo are trying to find a balance but they're going about it in different ways.

Since Day 1 in BC, the Prov Public Health Officer has been seen as being the one in charge, and always leading the daily briefings with the Health minister. Cabinet orders have followed her pronouncements so it is clearly seen that decisions have a public health-based rationale although there has still been some debate about inconsistencies in those orders. I see a lot more of other provincial premiers leading the daily briefings which makes them automatically more political, and their decisions much more argumentative.

The reality is that we have to reduce our number of contacts to reduce the spread, especially those where distancing cannot be maintained. BC has also targeted social gatherings as a main spreader but unlike Alberta has included churches in their orders as well. But it's generally seen as a health-based decision, not a political one based on ideology (which it could easily be seen as if the Premier were obviously calling the shots), so it's a much different public debate. We're not doing appreciably better than anyone else at combating the disease at this point in time but the debate appears to be way cooler in this province than elsewhere.

[hpeer]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I think what this really says is scientists have a hard time accounting for human brain on politics .

I've no doubt that from a health care and infrastructure standpoint, the USA and the UK were one of the best positioned to manage this pandemic. But it's hard for healthcare scientists to have predicted that public health measures would become political footballs.

If you look at the map, the yellow areas (most prepared) which DIDN'T turn mask wearing into a political statement, have done quite well.

What would be interesting (to me, at least) is to overlay a map showing societal cohesiveness levels with the map showing Covid-19 infection rates. Again, my theory is that societies which can act collectively, either through high trust levels, or through more authoritarian actions, will show a better response to the pandemic.

Holy ****!! Check out this correlation. And, yes, there are studies to back it up, its a thing.

Seriously.

[desodave]

And to my point from Alberta;

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...ings-1.5814877

[TrentePieds]

Obviously a situation like this MUST have political/economic ramifications and be dealt with with that in mind. And we should not delude ourselves that "Auntie Bonnie" (BCCHO Dr. Bonnie Henry) is not a political being. But we should also note that qua politician she is FAR more competent than most we see. BC Minister of Health, Adrian Dix, who is no slouch himself, acknowledges that in deed more than in word, although he is not shy about paying homage to Auntie in the public briefings.

Their thrust, as a team, has, from the very beginning been "we are all in it together, and by taking care of ourselves, we protect those we love. Please do your bit!" Every pronunciamiento, by either of them, that I have heard, has been intended to create SOCIAL COHESION, and that includes showing respect for our indigenous peoples and our many, many "new Canadians" from every corner of the world.

This stands in very stark contrast to what we've seen elsewhere on this continent. I think it is noteworthy that after 9 months of the pandemic, the Premier of a hung provincial government, John Horgan, holding power only by virtue of a Confidence and Supply Agreement with a diminutive, politically insignificant party, called an election and was returned to power with a very substantial majority. My reading of that is that the Auntie Bonnie/Adrian Dix team can take the credit for it, for "Unca John" has barely been seen in ANY discussion about what to do about the pandemic.

But as we now see, we are far from out of the woods. Ultimately, the only thing that will avail us is that none of us breathe air that has already been through someone else's lungs! IMO that will remain a fundamental truth even if Young Justin should contrive to have some amount of vaccine made available for the country he has chosen to bear responsibility for.

TrentePieds

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

...Their thrust, as a team, has, from the very beginning been "we are all in it together, and by taking care of ourselves, we protect those we love. Please do your bit!" Every pronunciamiento, by either of them, that I have heard, has been intended to create SOCIAL COHESION, and that includes showing respect for our indigenous peoples and our many, many "new Canadians" from every corner of the world.

Exactly my thought, or point, or whatever it is I'm trying to say . BC gov. understood from the start that this pandemic had to be fought together -- as a collective. Public health measures are in place largely to protect everyone else -- not me.

This is what some people in the me, me, me camp don't seem to understand. It's not about me. But in societies where it's all about ME, this is a harder case to make. We're seeing this play out both nationally and internationally.

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

This stands in very stark contrast to what we've seen elsewhere on this continent. I think it is noteworthy that after 9 months of the pandemic, the Premier of a hung provincial government, John Horgan, holding power only by virtue of a Confidence and Supply Agreement with a diminutive, politically insignificant party, called an election and was returned to power with a very substantial majority.

OK, now hold on . That was a simple, good old fashion, political power play. Opportunistic politics at its worst. Horgan could see they were up in the polls -- and perhaps rightly so given the government's pandemic response. But it was still a straightforward power grab. There was no necessity for it. And needless to say he broke his promise not to call an early election, but he's a politician after all. The Greens were doing nothing to hinder the government. Heck, they were the last ones who wanted an election.

It think it was a sad day for Canadian democracy to see that functional coalition government revert back to a majority. And this is from someone who often votes NDP.

[Mike OReilly]

Just to come back to an earlier discussion point here, we were talking about why Canadians are still flying to the USA. Someone said the Canadian government should ban them from going. Here's CBC piece which addresses the question:

As I said, it comes down to the government's legal ability to do so. We don't do that here, nor does the USA. Although apparently many other countries do.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/tra...d-19-1.5815649

[desodave]

Mike

I think TP is correct in his analysis and that your view of politics is a bit too pristine for reality. . You're again raising the only argument against the election call and BC voters obviously rejected that by overwhelmingly re-electing the gov't. You could easily argue that BC voters wanted the stability of a majority gov't that had already proven it was pursuing a science-based approach to deal with covid.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by desodave

Mike

I think TP is correct in his analysis and that your view of politics is a bit too pristine for reality. . You're again raising the only argument against the election call and BC voters obviously rejected that by overwhelmingly re-electing the gov't. You could easily argue that BC voters wanted the stability of a majority gov't that had already proven it was pursuing a science-based approach to deal with covid.

Hmmm, I would have thought our views would be characterized the other way. I'm the one suggesting a more cynical, realpolitik view. I thought TP's was a bit "pristine."

I'm not arguing the fact that the voters approve of the NDP government. And obviously the electorate did not feel the election call was inappropriate. Or if they did, they thought on balance Horgan was the superior choice. I don't disagree (given the options).

But it was still, very clearly, a cold calculated political choice to call the election when he did. There was no practical necessity. They were pursuing a "science based approach" before the election, and they are doing it now. Something I applaud them for. The Green coalition was not hampering the NDP's actions in any way.

Politics is rarely "pristine," and obviously it was a smart move for the government. But from a democratic perspective, a majority government is almost never a good idea. A minority, or better yet a coalition government, keeps more checks on absolute power. A majority government in our parliamentary system has few such checks.

[TrentePieds]

Mike sez: "This is what some people in the me, me, me camp don't seem to understand. It's not about me. But in societies where it's all about ME, this is a harder case to make. "

Absolutely! In some societies that case is impossible to make. To which I shall allude below :-)

AND Mike sez: "That was a simple, good old fashion, political power play. Opportunistic politics at its worst. Horgan could see they were up in the polls -- and perhaps rightly so given the government's pandemic response. But it was still a straightforward power grab. There was no necessity for it."

Yes, of course, it was - except it wasn't "at its worst". It was "at its best" :-)!

And of course there was "a necessity". Let us never deny that "politics" in "democratic" societies is all about, and ONLY about, the capture of the levers of power, and about keeping hold of them. To admit that that is so is, by convention, not done in polite society, and to a degree social stability is maintained, and open conflict is avoided, precisely because in polite society so many people subscribe to that convention. That, however, does not negate the absolute truth that in street fighting the first rule must be that you ALWAYS kick a man when he is down. And Andy weaver had stepped down, not being a "natural born" pol, and Young Sonia hasn't yet learned how to play the game. Unca John is NOT a mean man. Far from it. He'll be kind to Young Sonia. But he's a realist and he has an agenda. That agenda is perfectly well known to all BC-ers because Unca John has never been shy about enunciating it :-)

In my prior post I used the term "social cohesion". I did so advisedly because it's the accepted euphemism for "solidarity". As you know, that word causes acute dyspepsia in the unthinking, and should not, therefore, as a matter of common courtesy, be bandied about. There are places, some of them right here in Canada, where use of the more precisely descriptive term causes a predictable uproar. You will recall that prior to the hung parliament, BC's levers of power had been in the hands of people that perpetrated the fiction that they were the provincial branch of "Canada's Natural Ruling Party" - the one headed federally by Young Justin. They were not, of course. They were in the hands of a motley assemblage of wanton opportunists, some of them still subscribing to the doctrines of "Bible Bill" Aberhart and some among them having no guiding principles at all. With that as contrast to the hung parliament the people of BC voted in favour of the party perceived to have both the will to, and the means of, fostering the solidarity without which we cannot lay the pandemic to rest.

So things change. Things evolve. My beloved adopted land may have been begot in the late 18th Century. But we are not still mired in the phantasms of that time. You will recall la Révolution Tranquille. That, for me, these many years later, is still symbolic of Canada's ability to evolve, to change, to adapt, to hang together and to improve.

In large measure the reason we can do so, and have done so, is that among us there are people of John Horgan's, Auntie Bonnie's and Adrian Dix's cut of jib. You Mike, can list the ones in Ontario ;-)

TP