Canadian COVID-19 News

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Scorpius

Alberta is sometimes called "Texas North" - and it's not just because they have oil.

As I recall from my Canadian history, Alberta was initially populated by Americans. Perhaps this explains some of the differences.

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Wow Alberta has a very tough set of restrictions

Alberta is the only province without without province-wide mask mandate. The mandate is restricted to large cities.

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

As I recall from my Canadian history, Alberta was initially populated by Americans. Perhaps this explains some of the differences.

I hope you mean the immigrants that came to a land populated by indigenous groups.

The Hudson Bay and North West Company forts were here early. The Americans in the south were whisky traders who got sent on their way home by the North West Mounted Police.

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by Scorpius

Alberta is sometimes called "Texas North" - and it's not just because they have oil.

The largest ethnic group in Calgary was, at one point, American. Not sure about now.

[Kelkara]

Originally Posted by jackdale

The Americans in the south were whisky traders who got sent on their way home by the North West Mounted Police.

AS part of the Mississippi basin, the Milk River drainage was part of Louisiana before the border was set to 49N in 1818 ... so probably some USAians living there at one time.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

1. Yes indeed, but it's certainly evident from some of the comments here on CF.

2. As I keep saying, once the dust all settles on this pandemic and we've had a chance to digest all the data, I believe we'll see that societies that can act collectively will have done much better than those that are more individualistic.

1. Agree. I have read elesewhere (on "truth related websites") that the repeated 99% theme that one particular respondent here keeps flogging is a dead-giveaway (pi!) to the RWNJs.

2. Wouldn't that be: "...than those that are more stupid." ???

[Capn Jimbo]

Originally Posted by sv_pelagia

Jimbo:

~700/day isn't great, but it sure is far far better than Alberta's 1800+/day

Not sure if you are aware of COVID history here in Canada, and the very real differences between provinces' approaches, especially between Alberta and BC.

Hi Pelagia...

Actually since I have a number of good friends (esp in BC), and because I lived in Canada, and my partner is Canadian - well - I follow the Canadian numbers rather closely. I do think Canada in general has done a much better job.

Unfortunately 700 new cases is not “far, far better” than 1800/day (your numbers). Why? This is because neither BC nor Alberta have conducted sufficient tests for proper comparison, nor enough for proper and thorough testing, tracing and quarantine.

Thus at this time, the more tests a province conducts the more new cases they will find.

Facts:

1. Alberta has conducted a bit more than twice as many tests (1,502,000 to BC’s 829,000). To be exact, 1.81 times as many cases.

2. As a result BC has reported 36,000 total cases, and Alberta reports 67,000 cases, again to be exact, 1.86 times as many cases. Thus the case rate is almost exactly the same.

Data to Dec. 5th...

Wherein tests can be quite variable, deaths (and hospitalizations) are a much better comparison, with BC to date with 492 cases, and Alberta at 596, roughly equivalent as now chance comes into play with different age groups, nursing homes, factories and the like.

The point: comparing new cases alone is misleading, particularly here. The bottom line is that BC and Alberta compare quite closely. Neither has performed sufficient tests and post Thanksgiving promises to be explosive.

Hope that helps...

[desodave]

Mike, as in BC the first people to populate Alberta were indigenous. I'm sure you meant to say something like European settlers. I believe that there are significant differences between coastal first nations and plains-based that affect our provincial cultures. And on top of those has been the effect of European settlement in the two provinces.


In the west, there has been a lot of "industrial" overlap with subsequent population flows north and south bringing with those flows similarity in culture and attitudes. In Alberta, it's oil & gas and ranching. In BC it's been hard rock mining augmented by forestry and fishing. BC has developed more of a collective mindset imo arising from this industrial makeup. While there's a strong individualism involved in those BC industries there is a stronger sense of collective action, often just to protect against the dangers of the job - rates of unionization have been historically higher in BC, for example.


An effective covid response requires collective action. It requires individuals to assess their individual rights in terms of the collective well-being, and for them to choose that collective well-being in their decision-making. IMO there's more BC'ers that choose the collective than in Alberta - including the politicians.

But as Jimbo points out, it's a hollow victory if you're doing the best among states/provinces but the virus is still spreading rapidly. We all need to do a bit more thinking about the collective well-being imo.

[sv_pelagia]

Jimbo,

BC's positivity rate is about half that of Alberta's. I don't think you'd find anyone up here thinking COVID-19 pandemic is ~same in Alberta vs BC.

We'll see tomorrow, but BC's numbers have seemed to plateau over past week, whereas Alberta steeply rising.

[Macblaze]

Originally Posted by desodave

IMO there's more BC'ers that choose the collective than in Alberta - including the politicians.

The Premier of Alberta has definitively stated the only collectives he cares about are business related ones. There is indeed a huge ideological gap between BC and Alberta that is laying out in the covid responses.
As for the people themselves its hard to tell as we all tend to stick in our own little ideological bubbles, but I do get the feeling that the UCP's views are losing traction—which is a bit of a miracle given the stubbornness of Albertans.

Meanwhile I predict that because we've been reluctant to "rip the bandage off" we (Albertans) are in for a long painful winter.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by jackdale

I hope you mean the immigrants that came to a land populated by indigenous groups.

The Hudson Bay and North West Company forts were here early. The Americans in the south were whisky traders who got sent on their way home by the North West Mounted Police.

Yes, of course .

[Capn Jimbo]

Originally Posted by sv_pelagia

Jimbo,

BC's positivity rate is about half that of Alberta's. I don't think you'd find anyone up here thinking COVID-19 pandemic is ~same in Alberta vs BC.

We'll see tomorrow, but BC's numbers have seemed to plateau over past week, whereas Alberta steeply rising.

Look. I've been an advanced practice nurse, public health for 30 years. One more time, and if you wish to argue, you're on your own.

You can't - can't - can't cherry pick. Numbers vary widely and reporting is often delayed, especially on holidays or weekends. Short term blips and dips mean nothing. Comparing positivity rates is misleading at the least.

For example on Dec 3rd, BC's positivity rate was 16% and Alberta's was 12% but again - not a fair (short term) comparison, as both your alleged numbers and the facts disagree. All positivity rates over about 3% are bad and indicate ONLY that that testing for the purpose of TTQ (test/trace/quarantine) is insufficient.

I have noted the very recent blip in Alberta, but it remains to be seen what that may or may not mean.

I stand by my analysis. BC and Alberta's overall, long term performances are quite comparable, politics aside. Let's move on, shall we...

[sv_pelagia]

No Jimbo, I don't wish to argue... (not even a "5-minute argument" [emoji849])

There are some issues with repetitive testing; BC has recently started to separate MSP (public-funded) and private (e.g. film industry) test results as MSP rate higher. Do not know how Alberta is dealing with this (e.g., oil sands). PHAC has tried to factor in/out repetetive testing.

FYI, here is latest PHAC (Public Health Agency of Canada) epidemiological summary (Nov 22-28) wrt testing, positivity, etc (i.e., not single day data)

[TrentePieds]

Quote: "As I recall from my Canadian history, Alberta was initially populated by Americans"

Quite true, and so was Southern Ontario and sundry other places. Something of a sidelight, but significant in terms of my "thesis proposal" in a previous post: Saltspring Island was one of the termini for the "Underground Railroad".

The settlement of Americans in Alberta was contemporaneous with the settlement of sundry Scowegians there, but the two separate streams of settlers were, of course, driven by different motives. As for the Americans, their motivation should be seen through "the Turner Theses". The coming of Scowegians, Danes for a large part, should be seen on the background of Denmark's loss of Schleswig-Holstein in the Dano-Prussian war of 1864.

But these events are also essentially contemporaneous with the creation and building of the Canadian Pacific Railway in the early 1880s. You will recall that the CPR was an instrumentality in establishing and implementing The National Policy, conceived and implemented in the late 1870s. Those events, in turn, were a direct consequence of the invasion of BC in the late 1850s by "our cousins from the south" as commemorated in many place names in the Fraser Canyon, e.g. "Boston Bar", "American Bar", "Kanaka Bar". The little town where I live is named for a "remittance man" who was helpful, alongside "Hanging Judge Begbie", in damping down the violence that the American placer miners on the Fraser River had brought with them from the Californian goldfields. This man was in fact a miner manqué from the Californian fields even though he was an Englishman of considerable social standing and well connected both in the English and the continental European aristocracies.

So back to the CPR and TNP. The National Policy (I say this in case any American should be interested) had three aims: 1) [Not mentioned openly in polite society, but nevertheless of overriding importance] The conveyance of British Redcoats from Great Lakes Ports to the vast reaches of "the Prairies" in order to stem any American transgressions. 2) the conveyance of settlers and of capital goods from their Ports of Entry and from the manufacturing centres in Ontario out onto the Prairies so as to preempt the lands from settlement by (illegal) American "immigrants". and 3) the conveyance of "prairie products" (agricultural produce) from the Prairies to "The East" for consumption there, and to the transshipment ports whence they were shipped to "the Home Country". In short the CPR was meant to be a "wall on our southern border"

Reaching back further, you will recall that during the insurgencies of the late 1700s, the population of the "13 colonies" fell, roughly speaking, into three rubrics containing about equal numbers: 1) The committed insurgents, consisting of wannabe aristocrats seeing their main chance and those who were easily influenced, 2) those who just wanted to get on with their lives and in consequence kept their heads down, and 3) those whose attitude to insurrection was "Not on your Nelly!!"

This latter group cleared out for what remained of British North America, including the Niagara Peninsula, which had "downstream consequences". Sir Guy Carleton, Governor General of "the Canadas" at the time, awarded these people, and their descendants in perpetuity, with the right to suffix their names with the letters UE, standing for "United Empire Loyalist". He also awarded to each of the original UEs title to 200 acres of land. This is, to the best of my knowledge, the first DOCUMENTED instance of our embracing American political refugees, but we have, as most people know, continued to do so ever since. The last instance of our doing so, an instance that had enormous consequences for Canada, was our embracing those American political refugees who came here in the 1960s as a means of eluding the hegemonic thrusts of their native land.

From that it should be possible to begin to draw some tentative conclusions about why Canada's response to the pandemic differs from province to province and from that of other nations.

TP

[AiniA]

Good news that vaccinations are starting next week even if the number of available shots is quite small to start. Apparently three million by the end of January. I think Canada has hedged its bets pretty well with contracts with five different vaccine producers and 5x the number of doses needed.