Canadian COVID-19 News

[Mike OReilly]

I can't find any overall reference guide for Canadian determination. It's likely provincial-based, and I haven't gone looking there. But in general, western countries appear to have similar approaches to this question.

The American CDC guideline document directs medical practitioners to list the underlying cause of death (UCOD) as:

the disease or injury which initiated the train of morbid events leading directly to death

This is in contrast to the "immediate cause of death":

which is the disease or condition that directly preceded death and is not necessarily the underlying cause of death (UCOD)

In other words, the proximate cause might be a heart attack, but the ultimate or underlying cause, that started the chain of events which led to the heart attack, may have been Covid-19.

[hpeer]

I cant not answer your question in the standards directly. I can only say that they are controversial and not near as clear as you would think. I know physicians who rail at these standards.

A couple of months ago GB revised their standards and revised their “covid” death toll downward by 13%. I believe the US and GB standards are, or were, similar. The article I read related the GB standards in detail. They were highly arbitrary and frankly, weird.

Maybe google for the GB standards, might hive you some idea.

https://www.who.int/classifications/...ID-19.pdf?ua=1

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-h...-idUSKCN2582DV

[GordMay]

As I’ve previously posted, there are standard, generally consistent protocols for determining/reporting “Cause of Death”.
➥ https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ml#post3287001
➥ https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ml#post3287116



“Instructions for Completing the Cause-of-Death Section of the Death Certificate” ~ USCDC
➥ https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/dvs/blue_form.pdf
“
“Physicians' Handbook on Medical Certification of Death” ~ CDC
➥ https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/misc/hb_cod.pdf

“Handbook on Medical Certification of Death” ~ Ontario, Canada
➥ https://www.publications.gov.on.ca/s...les/016600.pdf

“INTERNATIONAL GUIDELINES FOR CERTIFICATION AND CLASSIFICATION (CODING) OF COVID-19 AS CAUSE OF DEATH” ~ WHO (Based on International Statistical Classification of Diseases, April 16, 2020)
➥ https://www.who.int/classifications/...h_COVID-19.pdf

“Medical certification of cause of death : instructions for physicians on use of international form of medical certificate of cause of death”
➥ https://apps.who.int/iris/handle/10665/40557

[Capn Jimbo]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I can't find any overall reference guide for Canadian determination. It's likely provincial-based, and I haven't gone looking there. But in general, western countries appear to have similar approaches to this question.

The American CDC guideline document directs medical practitioners to list the underlying cause of death (UCOD) as:

This is in contrast to the "immediate cause of death":

In other words, the proximate cause might be a heart attack, but the ultimate or underlying cause, that started the chain of events which led to the heart attack, may have been Covid-19.

Yes, well done. It's a shame this even has to be offered, but we now exist in a divided world, science vs conspiracy. A shame. The doubters have been led politically to their self serving notions.

The fact is that deaths are the gold standard in attempting to quantify the results of Covid, and the excess deaths make clear that if anything, the reported deaths in the numbers we see every day are far less than the real, excess deaths that scientists everywhere are - by great consensus - attributed to the pandemic.

The same is even more dramatic when considering the positive tests, particularly in view of the under testing in the US. Studies now estimate that reat number of positive cases is likely 7 or 8 times the reported number.

Carry on...

[Macblaze]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

[SIZE=3]
In other words, the proximate cause might be a heart attack, but the ultimate or underlying cause, that started the chain of events which led to the heart attack, may have been Covid-19.

I was having a big old think about this the other day and realized its all been done before with a wide variety of diseases/issues. The big one that struck me though was Aids. No one dies of Aids but a lot of deaths can be attributed to it.

Aids deaths are generally referred to as aids-related—I wonder if that might have been a better strategy for Covid. It does seem to be one of the very many communication-related issues surrounding this emergency—every day I see a new example of piss-poor communication between all the various stakeholders including the public.

Too many people are (unthinkingly) taking the easy way out and saying they (vulnerable people) were going to die anyway. When was the last time you heard of a person dying of old age? It's not how we view things these days, so why are we regressing now? The way we talk about this matters dammit.

sorry... end rant...

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Macblaze

Too many people are (unthinkingly) taking the easy way out and saying they (vulnerable people) were going to die anyway. When was the last time you heard of a person dying of old age? It's not how we view things these days, so why are we regressing now? The way we talk about this matters dammit.

sorry... end rant...

Rant away .

Good examples. I like to use the even more obvious example of an airplane crash. It is full of people, many of whom have underlying conditions. But no one says it was their heart disease that caused them to die when the plane hit the mountain.

How we talk about these things does indeed matter. The problem is, the response to this disease, and indeed the disease itself, was politicized for the basest of political reasons.

Once a notion or idea becomes a tenant of a belief structure -- once it becomes tribal -- it becomes much more difficult to have a rational discussion about it. This didn't have to happen. But it did. And all of us are paying the price.

BTW, Pelagic, I didn't mean to suggest anything about your friend's situation. I used it as an example, perhaps foolishly, because it was on hand. But I have no idea whether the death diagnosis was wrong or right.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by Macblaze

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
When was the last time you heard of a person dying of old age? It's not how we view things these days, so why are we regressing now? The way we talk about this matters dammit.

sorry... end rant...

NOW I can get to take this VERY, VERY, VERY personally.


In 2016 we moved here to Canada to support my then 95 year old father-in-law.


He was OK for the first few years, but then steadily worsened over the last year.


I wrote this to a few friends in September & October:


On Sept. 3rd my son & I motored up to Winter Cove and spent two nights without using the engine for charging and the higher voltage from the new batteries seem to decrease our daily amp draw so that we only used 120 ah for almost a 48 hour period. Voodoo electrical, I know... We caught two great moon rises and one superb sunset.
On the way back we came out Plumper Pass to Boundary and went through Colburne Passage where the ferries come in and out of Swartz Bay. Of course, we got there just before noon, so we waited for the noon sailing to come through just north of Coal Island where you and I were "reminded" to get outta their way. As we motored into that narrow slot, a Sea Transport ferry came out right behind, and as we cleared into the bay another ferry ahead of schedule, came up our backside. Great cruise.


My wife picked us up and said she'd had the few days from hell with her father, he'd been dropping out of bed and she had great difficulty picking him up again. When we got home, I went to unpack and she came over asking me to help him back into bed. Again. He was on the floor and I couldn't get any purchase on him to get him up, so we rolled him onto a sheet on the floor and barely managed. My wife figured it was finally time, and she called an ambulance to take him to the hospital. She went to visit him on Sunday and he was out of it. They called us at 0330 on Monday and told us he was gone. We knew once he was in the hospital that would be it, he was 99 1/2, but my wife was a trooper to the last. That was the 7th.



No Covid related death here.


I DO KNOW someone who died of OLD AGE.


Please, stop the nonsense!!!

[Macblaze]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

NOW I can get to take this VERY, VERY, VERY personally.

...

I DO KNOW someone who died of OLD AGE.

Hey Stu, I didn't mean to rile anyone up. It's just the these days most people refer to the cause of death as "organ failure," "cancer," "pneumonia," etc. and a host of other issues that are symptomatic of a worn out body.

As they say, its not the fall that kills you... Personally I would rather my death be characterized as being of old age, or perhaps excessive living...

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by Macblaze

Hey Stu, I didn't mean to rile anyone up. It's just the these days most people refer to the cause of death as "organ failure," "cancer," "pneumonia," etc. and a host of other issues that are symptomatic of a worn out body.

As they say, its not the fall that kills you... Personally I would rather my death be characterized as being of old age, or perhaps excessive living...

Thanks for your reply, much appreciated.


But yes, he DID die of old age. No related ANYTHING. Hardly sick a day in his life, hardly ever saw a doctor, had his gall bladder removed ages ago, essentially nothing wrong with him, no "comorbidities" or anything else.

[Mickeyrouse]

Originally Posted by Macblaze

You know I bet we could date people by a wooden spoon scale:



Generation 1: Spoon used with frequency

Generation 2: Spoon used infrequently

Generation 3: Spoon threatened frequently—maybe used once for effect

Generation 4: Spoon threatened infrequently—never used

Generation 5: Spoon?

Generation 6: Child Abuse!



Of course I could never bring myself to whack my kid so my kid must be solidly Gen 6

We were too poor for my Mom to risk breaking a wooden spoon on us. She would tell us to go out to the hedge in the back yard and cut a switch. Had to pick our own instrument of punishment, and made it twice as scary. The selection was the worst part.

[sv_pelagia]

More Albertans have died from COVID in 10 months than in past 10 years of flu

CALGARY -- A review of Alberta Health data on influenza deaths shows more people have died of COVID-19 in 2020 that died of flu since the 2009-10 flu season.

The reported data showed no more than 562 people died from the flu over the last decade in the province, compared to the 719 deaths attributed to COVID-19 since March.

https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/mobile/mo...-flu-1.5231406

[Mike OReilly]

Dozens of airline passengers in Canada hit with fines, warning letters for refusing to wear a mask

Interesting quote given some of the recent "freedom" discussion on other Covid-19 threads:

WestJet spokesperson Morgan Bell said the airline adopted a zero-tolerance policy on mask-wearing in September.

"Our approach is zero-tolerance, as Canadian travellers and all of our WestJet Group employees are counting on us to keep them safe," she said, pointing out that WestJet has flown more than 28,000 flights and more than a million passengers since the pandemic began.

"Travellers must understand if they choose to not wear a mask, they are choosing not to fly our airlines."

We all have freedom to choose. But choices come with consequences. Some seem to think their freedoms supersede everyone else.

[OurOasis]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Dozens of airline passengers in Canada hit with fines, warning letters for refusing to wear a mask

Interesting quote given some of the recent "freedom" discussion on other Covid-19 threads:

We all have freedom to choose. But choices come with consequences. Some seem to think their freedoms supersede everyone else.

Started in September?? what took them so long?

Everyone has the right to not wear a mask.... but
Nobody has the right to infect me, my family or someone's granny with a highly contagious and potentially deadly virus.... Nobody.

[OurOasis]

Canada's border agency says it's ready to enforce U.K. travel restrictions at airports
Social Sharing

[GordMay]

Personal protective equipment sold by Maskopia (formerly Medkem Canada Inc.) may pose serious health risks
Health Canada said, in a release Tuesday, that the company Maskopia, formerly known as Medkem Canada Inc., in Brampton, Ont., has been selling unlicensed supplies, including isolation gowns, cloth masks advertised as surgical masks, gloves and other PPE, through social media and on websites like Kijiji.
The agency is urging people to stop using supplies purchased from the company, and dispose of them, because they did not meet all of the agency's requirements for COVID-19 medical devices..
More ➥ https://www.healthycanadians.gc.ca/r...74613a-eng.php