Canadian COVID part-2

[Van Der Beek]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

No-one has the right to endanger others because of their beliefs.

Then stay at home and don't go out, that way you wont endanger anyone.

Don't drive a car, don't ride a motorcycle, don't sail, don't fly, don't ride a bicycle, don't travel by train etc. Just stay at home. Don't participate in society.

If the argument here is NOT to endanger anyone that's the course of action to take.

[Sailorman97]

Originally Posted by Van Der Beek

These mandates have nothing to do with science but with politics.

That said.

Everyone has the right to bodily integrity which includes healthcare workers. You can't mandate and or force people to undergo an irreversible medical procedure by injecting an experimental drug (in this case drugs and 'boosters') into their system, then on top of that, make those who manufacture and sell the product exempt from liability.

Get a clue.

These mandates have nothing to do with science but with politics.
Patently false. It is well documented that vaccines lower the severity and hospitalization rates and that they spread less disease. It is also well documented that unvaccinated people are much more likely to end up in ICU and that they shed more virus.

I have an Ontario Class A drivers license. I have certain requirements that I must meet to keep that license. I have CofQ in an Ontario certified trade. I have requirements for that too. When I went to school as a child I had to get vaccines. I can't just call myself a doctor and go into practice. I am not allowed to drive drunk no matter what I think.

Living and operating in a functioning society means you have responsibilities and obligations.

You don't want to get a vaccine fine by me but that means you can not do certain things. I personally feel that if you don't get vaccinated you should not be allowed hospital care for covid. That is just me speaking but I also know several nurses and doctors who feel the same way.

I am sure I will now hear the usual tripe about obesity, cigarettes and alcohol but it matters not at all as these are straw man arguments. People do not choose to be fat and losing weight permanently is extremely difficult, if they abuse alcohol they were likely abused and traumatized at some point in their life and are using the only medication available to them, and smoking is highly addictive, one of the hardest addictions to break and is promoted by the manufacturers when people are young and impressionable. Regardless none of these people take up as many hospital beds as the covid patients


We will see where all of these dropped mandates lead us. If as I suspect, it leads to further severe outbreaks then we will know that the politicians were fools and that their dropping of the mandates was simple politics. Certainly Kenney, Ford, Moe & Pallister can never be accused of taking this health emergency seriously. It has been politics all thee way.


As for your closing statement,

"Get a clue"

It is simply rude and has no place here. When someone starts insulting others on a forum it is a good indication that they feel they are losing the argument.

[Sailorman97]

Originally Posted by Van Der Beek

Then stay at home and don't go out, that way you wont endanger anyone.

Don't drive a car, don't ride a motorcycle, don't sail, don't fly, don't ride a bicycle, don't travel by train etc. Just stay at home. Don't participate in society.

If the argument here is NOT to endanger anyone that's the course of action to take.

More false strawman arguments.

Those are actions he or she may choose to take. They have control and it does not impact you in the least.

You choosing to not get vaccinated and then catching and spreading a disease to others is a completely different thing.

Your freedom to swing your fist stops at my nose.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Van Der Beek

If the argument here is NOT to endanger anyone that's the course of action to take.

Hellooo, there's a pandemic on. The argument is to reduce its net impact on everyone AND society. Almost done. Be patient.

[Van Der Beek]

Originally Posted by Sailorman97

Those are actions he or she may choose to take. They have control and it does not impact you in the least.

That's blatantly false.

And "your" initial argument was that of not endangering anyone, I expanded on that premise, you do not get to pick and chose as if it was a buffet.

Originally Posted by Sailorman97

You choosing to not get vaccinated and then catching and spreading a disease to others is a completely different thing.

The "vaccines" and boosters do not prevent the spread of the virus in the first place.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Van Der Beek

And "your" initial argument was that of not endangering anyone, I expanded on that premise, you do not get to pick and chose as if it was a buffet.

Neither do you, which is why your little riff on "endangering" is specious. It proves nothing.

The "vaccines" and boosters do not prevent the spread of the virus in the first place.

Who claimed "prevent"? Strawman. Vaccination clearly reduces the severity and duration of illness. Both of which reduce spread. And it's been shown that vaccination does confer greater resistance to catching Omicron, especially if its 2+booster.

[Van Der Beek]

It's not a strawman at all, heck, I take it a bit further.

Unless Big Pharma injected you with placebo(s) and the vaccines and boosters worked as advertised, then those who didn't inject themselves wouldn't pose a threat to you anyway.

Either they would perish or develop natural immunity.

In other words.
If you've taken all the "vaccines" and 'boosters' as recommended you are perfectly safe and protected from all the biohazards out there that opted out.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Van Der Beek

... those who didn't inject themselves wouldn't pose a threat to you anyway.

Either they would perish or develop natural immunity.

Responsible societies don't operate in such Darwinian fashion.

If you've taken all the "vaccines" and 'boosters' you are perfectly safe and protected from all the bio-hazards out there that opted out.

Nobody's made that claim for COVID vaccination. Try again.

[Sailorman97]

Originally Posted by Van Der Beek

That's blatantly false.
.

Just saying something is false without backing arguments is rather childish.

How is my riding a motorcycle endangering you?

[Sailorman97]

Originally Posted by Van Der Beek

It's not a strawman at all

They appear to all be straw man arguments.

[danstanford]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

Responsible societies don't operate in such Darwinian fashion.


Nobody's made that claim for vaccination. Try again.

Sadly, I have heard quite a few people on the pro-vaccine side observe that the problem with the anti-vaxxers will solve itself using Darwinian processes.

I sure wish we could all be a little more tolerant of opposing viewpoints.

[Van Der Beek]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

Responsible societies don't operate in such Darwinian fashion.

Let's recap.
Quote
Everyone has the right to bodily integrity which includes healthcare workers. You can't mandate and or force people to undergo an irreversible medical procedure by injecting an experimental drug (in this case drugs and 'boosters') into their system, then on top of that, make those who manufacture and sell the product exempt from liability.

The outcome is as I previously stated then. Either they would perish or develop natural immunity. In this case COVID.

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

Nobody's made that claim for vaccination.

Then you have no argument. Other than to say, everyone is free to do as they choose to make their own medical decisions, which again, goes right back to your right to bodily integrity.

To each his own.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by boatman61

My apologies.. I obviously missed the mandate being revoked.. it was not posted as a troll merely as what was being mandated in England and the anticipated result.
The devolved governments have different choices and decisions.. for example Scotland appears to be planning to extend their restrictions till September whilst England are ending theirs at the end of Feburary.

While introducing mandatory vaccines might mean losing some staff, they might also motivate some to get vaccinated; and not introducing them arguably puts the lives of vulnerable patients at increased risk.

Government[s] often don't have simple, easy, [everyone wins] choices, and are often having to choose between lesser evils.

[Van Der Beek]

Originally Posted by Sailorman97

How is my riding a motorcycle endangering you?

Every time you operate a motor vehicle you endanger others, including yourself. Perhaps research how many deadly accidents we have each year.

You may be an excellent driver/rider, but you do not control vehicles around you, anymore they control you.

Originally Posted by Sailorman97

Just saying something is false without backing arguments is rather childish.

I was clearly expecting too much from you.

[Van Der Beek]

In spirit of health and impact on society and all that.

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

Hellooo, there's a pandemic on. The argument is to reduce its net impact on everyone AND society. Almost done. Be patient.

Ah yes, the pandemic of the fat and obese, well I'm afraid this one will be with us for much longer.

It was known early on that fat and obese people were around 60% more vulnerable to infection, and more likely to succumb to COVID after infection.

Government could have spent the past two years campaigning for people to lose weight and improve their overall health instead of telling us we're all gonna kill grandma and die unless we take the vaccines and the boosters.

Over 70% of the population is either fat and obese. That's the nations health issue.